Nurturing Teams Through Frontline Leadership

Michael VanDervort, Phil Wilson, Greg Hawks

Michael: [00:00:10] So today, we’re going to chat about frontline leadership, one of the most important and tough jobs in any company. Frontline leaders are the ones who manage the people who do the work and serve the customers. They create their team’s vibe, culture and results. They also deal with the pressure, stress and mess in their work. How can frontline leaders rock and roll and make a difference for their teams and businesses? Today we’re going to talk with Greg Hawkes. He’s a leadership expert. Well, Greg, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

Greg: [00:00:37] Just fantastic. So grateful to get to be here Greg.

Phil: [00:00:39] Greg Hawkes, welcome. It’s good to see you. You’re so good to be here. You said you were rocking some Jack White to prep for the show.

Greg: [00:00:51] I did. I got in the spirit of MRI with my Jack white, the White Stripes, the whole deal. I got Sonos around the house, so.

Phil: [00:00:58] I like it, I like it. Well, welcome. So, like, uh, before we get into questions, Michael, I know you’ve got some great, uh, questions to ask before we do that. Just like what’s happening? What is going on in your world right now.

Greg: [00:01:12] Man? All kinds of exciting things is we’re moving into the next season. The next quarter, I’ve picked up this business coach, Phil, and he does this rolling 12 months. So instead of like looking at life through the lens of the annual calendar, it’s this idea of rolling 12 months, which is just a really different concept for me. And he was like, I don’t know why you struggle with this, Greg, because I’m and I’m like, because every human being like celebrates the new year and the start of the new year. And, um, and so we’re working to shift in our whole structure in our little business here. And so it’s been a lot of fun to kind of adapt and adopt some new approaches to how we structure our business and think about what we’re doing with our lives.

Phil: [00:01:54] That’s cool. I like we we could definitely talk about like, business strategy and all that. I literally just, uh, um, I just start I hadn’t looked at like my annual, like, life planning stuff. And I think the last time was 2019. So. So there you go. I, I picked all that back up recently, but I, but I, I went ahead and did 2024 goals. But I started them now which is, you know kind of like the rolling uh the rolling 12. So that’s uh, uh that’s cool.

Greg: [00:02:25] I mean, the whole concept, he does like this lighthouse like this, the 12, I mean, the ten like your ten objectives. And then what’s really cool is he does a 30 day clean slate. So you do every 30 days. And we do our money, our aspirations and all that. And then you start fresh. And then honestly, he does like a daily. So we do a daily thing where it’s like you start over again 30 days like that, 90 days. And so the whole rolling calendar, it’s just a it’s a really different way of thinking about achieving goals and kind of setting yourself up for what’s important. And it always kind of keeps um, you just kind of have you read that book like the, uh, 12, 12 week year?

Phil: [00:03:06] I swear I was literally going to say, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard this book 12 week year. That is hilarious. Yeah, I have heard of it.

Greg: [00:03:12] That is how I  feel about it. Okay. Yeah. And it’s just one of those things where you’re like, oh, it keeps it. It just really forms a different perspective. And so I really appreciate it. But it it is a different way of thinking kind of about how your, how your life progresses.

Phil: [00:03:26] Yeah, I think that’s cool.

Michael: [00:03:28] If you could just mash up the 12 the 12 week year and the four hour workweek, right? That’s it. That’s right. I have a micro business. And by the way, um, given that we’re still we’re still running down kind of the format of the show, I didn’t do a great job of introducing you, Greg. So let me let me introduce you to our guest, Greg.

Michael: [00:03:48] Greg Hawkes is the founder and chief culture officer for Hawkes Agency, which is a consulting firm that helps businesses create awesome workplaces. So kind of in the same business as as we are here at Elara, trying to help people build great workplaces, be better leaders. You’re a speaker, a coach, and a professional leadership advisor. And he also is an author of The Weekly Instigator, which is a blog that provides insights on leadership and workplace culture. And you can find him and and his services at his website. And Greg, is that Hawkes Agency.com.  So if you want to find out more about Greg, check him out at Hawkes Agency.com. And like I said at the at the intro, we’re going to talk about leadership today.

[00:04:28] So I highly recommend the weekly instigator for everybody that’s watching. And I was a very early subscriber to the Weekly Instigator, but it is a great little window into the whole world of Greg Hawkes.

Michael: [00:04:45] And yes, indeed does uh, does a similar thing on LinkedIn as well, a weekly post on LinkedIn, which has some really great insights there. It’s it’s whatever is on the mind of Greg Hawkes. And let me tell you, that’s a very active mind, isn’t it?

Greg: [00:05:00] Yes it is, yes. Those are, those are one and the same. Michael, I’ve got my media director takes the weekly instigator, posts the snippet, she puts the snippet of it and puts. To link to it on our website. So yes, the LinkedIn. I personally like people receiving it. You know, I’ve been doing it over seven years. Every Saturday morning I wake up and I write.

Greg: [00:05:20] Sunday morning literally it’s it’s over seven in January. It’ll be eight years that that’s literally every week. And it’s such a great what I love about it is for leadership. Right. So I’ll just segway into leadership. One of the things that I love about this weekly instigator is that I literally learned something from my own life every week, because I take the time to kind of reflect on it. You know, if we’re talking about leading people, building into their lives a schedule that says, and mine is Saturday morning at 5 a.m. or 6 a.m., so it’s not even during the business week, but it’s like I can reflect. And as I think about just all the interactions I’ve had, what emerges from that? And, you know, I think in all of our lives as leaders, there’s always opportunities to learn. It doesn’t have to be going to a conference or, you know, even picking up a book. It’s like our own life and our own interactions and our own challenges offer lots of insight and wisdom. If we’ll take the time to kind of see what we can extract from it. So it’s become a great discipline and a joy for me.

Michael: [00:06:19] That’s awesome. You know, it’s funny, Greg, I read the last one, which was the pinball. Your life is a pinball or life is a plunger, right? Yeah, yeah. And literally just before I read that earlier yesterday morning. I happened to watch an early rendition of a video of The Who playing Pinball Wizard, so I was like, I’d never had Greg Hawks to model but I’ve been into Rock of the Beatles new last song, right the Now and Then tune that they just released. So I’m listening to British rock anyway, we want.

Phil: [00:06:55] To say real quick your take on now and then. What’s your, what’s your, So Michael, you just brought it up. So what’s your what’s your take?

Michael: [00:07:03] I mean, it’s not like a, like, it’s not the best of the Beatles for sure. Right. But the idea I’m struck by two things about it. So first of all, the songs, it’s an okay Beatles song, but the fact that we have an okay Beatles song 50 years after they broke up is amazing. And if you watch the back story, which I have, there’s like some short videos and stuff that are out there by Peter Jackson. If you look at the work that they did to bring this song to fruition, and I think the kind of the closure that it maybe like I had a real poignant moment about Paul and Ringo doing this work. Right? I mean, it’s it’s like ending their career of that, you know, of anyway, there’s a lot there for them to unpack. And so all these people that are blasting it and saying, oh, it’s kind of inferior and blah, blah, blah, screw them. It mattered to those two guys and they deserve to have that. Um, yeah. They deserve to have that closure. Yeah.

Phil: [00:07:54] Yeah, that’s how many how many of those haters have, like, you know, a 36, like number one hit. Exactly. What about you, Greg?

Greg: [00:08:03] Greg, I you know, I haven’t watched any the backstory on it, so I listened to it. I like well, that’s very curious on how it came together because it isn’t terribly impressive, but it’s like, I love that we live in a day and age where people’s efforts still have the potential to come to the surface, long after you think it has no potential anymore, you know? So that’s one of the things I love about technology and love about the life we’re living now. It’s like nothing ever really dies or goes away, and everything has the potential to emerge as something fresh.

Phil: [00:08:39] Yeah, I mean, I had kind of the same initial reaction was kind of like, you know, well, it’s definitely like far from my favorite Beatles song. Um, but then there’s there is this there is this love story. There’s an incredible, uh, I can’t I think it was rolling Stone, um, might have it might have just been, it might have been New York Times. But anyway, there’s like, there’s an incredible love story that’s really being told like that, um, like that. That saying was like the last words that Lennon spoke to Paul, like at the end of. And I think there’s video of that interaction in. So like as they’re, as they’re finishing the filming of Let It Be, um, they uh, there’s like this interaction where I hope to see you now and then or like some something like that and that. Then there was a, there was a part of there was then this like decade that they were, you know, really kind of like shooting. I mean, it was it was kind of like an early rap battle, you know, um, so they’re like firing off songs at each other that, that are pretty spiteful. Um, yeah. And like, this was kind of John’s, like, love note to Paul. So like, there’s that whole story too. Like I, I just love all that about it. Um, yeah. Not my favorite Beatles song, but like, dude, it’s a Beatles story from 50 years ago. It’s a and the AI that they use to like, I mean, that was just like a demo tape that John just sort of like, was probably just kind of goofing around at that point. And they were able to, like, pull the vocals out of that. And it’s, it’s it’s cool.

Michael: [00:10:19] It’s amazing. Yeah, all right. How it came. Yeah. There’s a 13-minute or so video on Disney+ if you have that. That show is kind of like the quick backstory of this. I did a little more digging after watching that. If you’re interested, I highly advise you go watch it. It’s pretty cool without investing a lot of time. Let’s pivot to leadership. So this is like.

Phil: [00:10:39] This is like a this is like this is like a weekly instigator episode right now. And Greg hasn’t Said a word yet.

Michael: [00:10:45] . But we’re going to get we’re going to get you talking now. So um, so we wanted to talk about frontline leadership. And in the pre-show you said, well, what is frontline leadership? And I think it I think it varies. I think we’ll just talk about leaders in general. So for for a lot of our folks, it’s probably frontline supervisors, literally the shift production supervisors and that kind of thing in your world, Greg, it might be more executives, but I still think these are kind of they apply no matter what. So, I mean, we had some kind of general assumptions and then some questions to go with them. So the first general assumption is frontline leaders need to be willing to do the dirty work and show their team members that they care about them in their work environment. And so the first question I would ask you about that is, what are the challenges today for frontline leaders, Greg? And how do they how do they deal with them in the workplace? And, Phil, obviously, you’ll chime in here as well. Um,

Greg: [00:11:35] When you say, how do they deal with them frontline leaders within the people that are leading? Because you know, that that philosophy of, uh, a leader needs to get in the mix with his people, you know, creates some tension because every time they’re doing that, they’re not providing leadership. And, you know, the tension is when a leader does that. The purpose has to be a couple of things. First of all, it has to be very intentional, not, oh my gosh, we have an opening.

Greg: [00:12:00] So I just have to jump in and fill in because that is not the message you want to send that I’m the backup. It’s that, hey, I care about my people. I want to be with them through this difficult time, and I want to make sure that they know I understand what’s happening in the world. But at the same time, they have to also say the role I’m playing, I’m most valuable when I don’t jump in, because then I lose perspective of everything. And I’m at this place where my, um, view of responsibilities becomes very limited. And for a leader, that tension is, you know, because sometimes people that are the work that are working, that frontline are like, these guys don’t understand. They’re not down here with us. They don’t really appreciate what we’re going through. And so there’s a little bit of there’s always a tension that says, um, well, you should come down here and be here. And then you understand. But the reverse is also true. It’s like, if you were up here in my role, you would see it’s. Not the most valuable move for me to come in and be there for long. And so I think leaders do that when they want to intentionally build relationships with the people that they’re leading. Also, demonstrate what it looks like to be a go-to person and then probably third, just the expression of care, which builds trust. You know, having care be something very central to the way they lead. And so I think doing that intentionally is really important for a leader to do.

Phil: [00:13:21] Yeah. One of the big mistakes that a lot of companies make is they promote like their, you know, their best producer into like that frontline leadership role and then that and then that frontline leader. A lot of times they fail for a couple of reasons. Like they, they they’re more comfortable doing the production roles. So they would rather like jump in and do that role instead of actually, Greg, like doing the leadership that they’re supposed to do because they’re not as comfortable with that. A lot of times they don’t even have any training in that or really understand what’s expected of them there. Um, and then and then the other problem is they have like these super high standards because like, no one could produce as much as them. So they’re looking around at everyone going like, what’s the matter with you? Um, and they, they start from, you know, what I call the villain assumption, right? But it’s like everyone else here is broken. I’m the only one that knows how to do this. So like, it’s a big problem. So I, I do agree like everyone like you can’t be the kind of leader where it’s like, I never get my hands dirty. I’m not willing to roll up my sleeves and help if something’s going on. Like, there’s definitely a time and place for your team to understand. Like, I got your back if things are out of whack. But like, the flip of that is for sure true. Like I if I’m doing production work, I am not leading, and like that’s you. You need and deserve a leader.

Greg: [00:14:45] Yeah, it is harder work. I mean, that’s that’s the challenge. Leading is the harder work. But people who are right on the front line feel like this immediate thing is more difficult. And it’s just not. Yeah.

Michael: [00:14:56] In the last few years, um, at in my previous role. We saw that, you know, business just jumped up, right, because of the pandemic. And I was in retail, grocery business and business jumped up because people stopped being able to go out to eat and that kind of stuff. And so we needed more managers. We needed more people, we needed more hands. And there were all these audits and there were Covid, you know, all this extra work got built in. And so they, they promoted people to your point fill, I think, like they promoted the best workers without training them. Right. And then so then these people are in roles where they’re not skilled, and they didn’t have the time or the training to pay attention to people and what, what we, what we saw was organizational friction developed because people felt like their managers didn’t care and weren’t paying attention to their problems, when in fact the managers either didn’t know what to do or were so overwhelmed with administrative stuff, audits and these kind of things that they didn’t have time to pay attention to the people. But it really broke some, you know, what had been some effective organizations in the company that I used to work for. Um, and it took a lot to fix that. so there’s like there’s a lot of modern day issues, I think, that affect this as well. So if the key is to manage people and provide leadership, right? As opposed to like rolling up your sleeves and throwing boxes or whatever. how do front line leaders show their team members that they care about them and that they care about their work environment? What should they be doing?

Greg: [00:16:38] Well, I mean, that’s it. there’s a broad spectrum of things they could be doing. I would say listening is always kind of a central tenet. If you want to be an effective leader, get yourself in a place where you listen to people, whether it’s in the break room, whether it’s on their shift, where they’re at or what location they’re in, going to different locations that may need and listening. There is no more accelerated trust-building exercise than a leader who listens. And people are very aware. I mean, my friend Phil here has an approachable leadership book, and the idea of that approachability is still so valid. You know, I’ll talk about in the organizations that I work with. You know, open-door policies are kind of silly because the door has never been the problem. It’s the person behind the door. And so that idea of if a leader had to choose anything, it would be two things for me listening and being willing to to verbalize the challenges they’re currently working through. The other thing that endears people to a leader and causes them to trust them, is when they willingly share their own struggles with living up to the cultural values, trying to incorporate new software, the things that they’re challenged with, or their schedules when they’ll verbalize that and have and be open about that. Those are the two best trust accelerators that really cultivate an environment where the leadership can have real big impact on those that they lead.

Phil: [00:18:10] Yeah, I mean, that’s like like you said, like the approachability work. It’s it’s three things. It’s right space. So, like, you can have the open door, but is there a welcome mat or a go-away mat in front of that door? Like, you know, when you come through, is it like, hey, I’m glad to see you or like, oh God, not you again. So like that’s yeah, it’s it’s right space, right feeling. So empathy, being vulnerable, being willing to like make mistakes and be open about that. Like that. Just what you just talked about. So that’s the second one. And then right action is the third one. You didn’t mention it. But it’s like you know, it’s fine. Like I’m welcoming we have a great conversation. You feel like I really listened and understood you. But if I don’t actually do what I say I’m going to do at the end of that conversation, then that also destroys trust. So you kind of have to fill each of those buckets to, you know, to to build that relationship. But each one of those, Michael, to the original question is like, that’s a way you show you care. I am available to you. I listen and try to understand you, and I try to do what I commit to do for you. Yeah.

Michael: [00:19:17] so like so the the next assumption actually kind of leads into that in that is about communication. And Greg you mentioned listening but but communication is more than just intake right. You’ve got to also listen understand show empathy and respond. Right. There are a few other behaviors that need to be followed, such as being a good listener. Because if you don’t do anything to what they with what they tell you, it doesn’t help them. Right? I guess the assumption is frontline leaders need to be able to communicate effectively with their team members and understand their perspectives and needs. So what are some common communication challenges in front of that frontline leaders face in getting the process done? That’s funny. I mean, I do a whole thing where I talk about what are the barriers to communication in organizations. It is, uh, time. People don’t feel like they have the time to communicate effectively. It is technology. Different people want to be communicated with differently. It is overload. Some people are getting so many emails that they’re just like, please stop sending. It is lack of communication. The same organizations people feel like, I don’t know what’s going on around here. So this disparity between people who feel like there’s too much and too little. And so, uh, another barrier of communication is people’s willingness to appreciate the listener and what style of communication they need and how they learn and those sorts of things. And so, you know, that’s why we were talking about trust a little bit, because it is such central to good communication, effective communication and causing people to be willing to, um, do what’s said. And, you know, then like you’re talking about Michael, on the flip side where people you want them sharing, I spent a lot of time talking about specificity.

Greg: [00:21:13] Like, there is there’s this general thing that people can use and sharing and talking. And then there’s let’s. Be specific about what matters. Why it matters. What you want to see is the end result and what that looks like. And so the more specific I think it says, the more I care, and the more we both have an understanding of our measurables and what we’re looking at the outcome to be. And so those are a couple of things in that vein. But communication is, you know, just so central to all of it. That’s what leadership’s primary objective is. Mhm.

Greg: [00:21:48] yeah I’ll say I’ll say one more thing. Let me say one more thing. The other thing I find is that from a supervisory position, the more a frontline leader can share vision, because by sharing vision of what we’re trying to do, it invites the person they’re leading to be an owner of the end result. Because if they feel like they’re just I’m just getting a little task. Here’s what they told me to do this week. Here’s what I have to do this week. And there’s no sense of scope, right. And that’s the leadership. Leaders typically have a larger perspective. And the more you invite people into that vision, the greater chance they’ll have to contribute to be an owner in it and to feel like what they’re doing is playing towards something more than just this weekly, weekly task I have to get done. And so it’s not just vision cast like, here’s where we’re going, but like understanding how what we’re doing here is in alignment with what our objectives are. Kind of in a longer perspective.

Phil: [00:22:45] Yeah, I want to just like emphasize that point. I think probably the most important thing that a leader can do is to connect the daily task to the customer to the mission, um, core purpose of the organization. I mean, we talk about it like nonstop here, but even though we do a lot of different interventions and a lot of different like situations, at the end of the day, our core purpose is to help organizations create extraordinary workplaces. Like that’s what we do. And and we start here to make this an extraordinary workplace. And then that ripples out to our consulting team. And that ripples out to all of the the clients that we get to touch during the year and like that. But at the, at the, at the core of it all, it’s extraordinary workplace. So like, what is what you’re working on helping us deliver extraordinary workplaces and um, but that like, that’s I mean, to me I totally agree like that. Like connect the what you’re doing right now to the the mission is, is a critical leadership skill. And it’s super easy to lose sight of that. It’s super easy to go like I am just like doing this one task. And this task is boring and it’s not important. And I don’t feel like I have a lot of value like that. Like it is real easy to kind of get yourself into that frame of mind, and you really have to have that sort of like bigger picture to engage and to want to do your best and to want to be like looking around, what else can I do to, like, help contribute to the mission? There’s all kinds of positive things that happen once that connection is there. But if the connection is lost, then you’re just, you know, working and not happy.

Michael: [00:24:39] One thing, one thing you guys didn’t mention, I think that is important is, and you can it’s maybe two things: accountability and discipline. And I don’t mean being a taskmaster. I mean holding people accountable to whatever the goals and objectives are. But it can also be things as simple as like, well, we need to clean the floors. And because if you just let the floors be dirty, it sets a tone for sloppiness, also safety. You know, there’s like there’s a lot of things that it’s easy to let things slide. And once you start down that road, it’ll keep going. So it was that factor as well. I wanted to ask Greg if you had any tips or tools that frontline leaders might be able to use to improve their communications or avoid misunderstanding and conflict?

Greg: [00:25:25] Sure. Let me just I wanted to add on to what Phil said, and then we’ll come because I work with mission nonprofits and mission nonprofit organizations and even like their end result. Like is life impacting like literally life altering services. And even they can get caught up in just the daily grind of work. You know, and I always think, man, if that happens in a place where the where their output is literally life changing and they can just get narrowed in on it, how much easier it is for people in for-profit industries and that are maybe creating widgets that they don’t really attach life change to, or the value of it to go, oh, this matters. So that’s what Phil, I just want to reiterate that, yeah, it’s hard. That’s a hard thing for leaders to be mindful of to do that. So some tips and tricks I mean Michael I don’t think there’s anything you know. There’s always different strategies and methodologies. But for me it’s you know it’s always keeping the values present. So if we’re having meetings because you asked it, what are the things they can do about caring?

Michael: [00:26:31] let me make sure I clarify the question about improving their communication skills and avoiding misunderstanding and conflict. So yeah, you can show that they care.

Greg: [00:26:41] Okay, well, I’m just saying even like for tips and strategies and that sort of thing, you know, consistency, whatever they’re communicating consistency consistency consistency is the key. People never hear things as much as we think we say things right. So that’s a leadership philosophy that sometimes feels like we can be beating this drum so frequently. It’s like, I just need to give it a break and you don’t like you just have to be consistent, consistent, consistent in what you’re communicating. And then just the consistency of where you’re present. When people can rely on you to be visible or to be accessible. And things we’ve already talked about, I think are really important, I think with encouragement, um, you know, the understanding people’s different, um, not like a love language, but what, what their return on investment is. So, you know, I talk about when people make sacrifices. I use this e frog model that as a leader, it’s important you understand whether the person is willing, what they’re doing. Are they doing it because they get something emotional, because they get something financial, because they think they’re getting something relational, because there’s an opportunity connected, or they’re doing it for growth and understanding why someone’s doing what they’re doing, whether they’re going above and beyond or what they’re willing to do. And so when you encourage them or acknowledge them or exhort them in a way, you want to do it in the in the return on investment that they want, you know, somebody like me, I’m like, put me up on a stage and shout my name to the heavens, you know? And other people are like, good Lord, don’t do that at all. Like, that’s the worst thing you could do to me.

Phil: [00:28:18] A lot of those people are in your audience, by the way.

Michael: [00:28:21] Yes. They’re like a guy like him that gets up there and likes his. Yeah. So anyway,

Greg: [00:28:28] So I think understanding return on investment is something a leader, um, because, you know, all of us are investing our lives, right? That every day we go to work, we’re investing our lives. This is where we’re choosing to give our life today. And so that return is always, you know, something more than a paycheck. And so leaders understanding that and being able to, um, give that to the people that they lead, I think is a great communication strategy.

Michael: [00:28:55] At about 30 minutes. And we can keep going. But I just want to let you guys know where we’re at since we’re going to run a little over. So the said, I don’t know, Phil, did you have anything you wanted to add there before I ask?

Phil: [00:29:05] Like my favorite, my favorite tool around communication, um, that we teach is stop, listen and confirm. So that’s the, you know, don’t you know, especially if someone’s coming to you with an issue or a concern or a problem, don’t, um, you know, don’t fly by and just give them a second, like you need to stop, put your phone down, close your laptop or whatever. If you don’t have time to talk to them at that second, like schedule a time to talk to them. So that’s, you know, stop. Listen, we’ve already talked about, but make sure you’re actively listening. You’re empathizing. You’re verbalizing, you know, summarizing what they’re saying and all that. But the the key is the confirm step because most most a lot of leaders are good at problem solving. So like good problem solvers, when they hear a problem they’re just brain is going like oh, what’s the solution? What’s the solution? And then as soon as they have it, then they stop listening and they just wait for you to breathe. And then they go like, ah, here’s the solve. So the confirm step is you sound blank, which is an emotion. You know, you sound blank because of blank. Do I have that right? Like, if you want to make sure that the person that you’re talking to feels like you listen to them and that they were understood like that script is the answer. You sound blank because a blank. Do I have that right? You are telling them, first of all, you’re listening for an emotion, so you’re really trying to connect with them. Not at an I can repeat the story, but like what is underneath this because of the blank. So what’s what I heard. The facts of the story and then confirming understanding. Do I have that right? I think that is a that’s a really important tool, not just at work. It’s important at home. Um, like that. That is a great technique if you can just stop yourself for a second and get into that space of, I’m listening for the emotion and I’m confirming understanding, you’re going to have much, much, much better conversations.

Michael: [00:30:59] Yeah. And we already touched on this a bit. The third, the third kind of big assumption I guess. But a couple questions around it. So, the assumption is that frontline leaders need a clear vision and purpose for their work to inspire their team, inspire themselves, and inspire their team. So, Greg, how do you inspire your team members to follow your vision and purpose?

Greg: [00:31:21] Oh, haha. Is this a trick question?

Michael: [00:31:25] No, no, you have a coach and everything. Come on you you gotta be. No, no.

Greg: [00:31:30] Yeah, I mean honestly the way that works best for me is finding what motivates what their heartbeat is and attaching it to what we’re trying to accomplish. Like, it’s a pretty simple thing where I’m like, what do you care about? What matters? How can how can that heart, you know, because I’m all about ownership mindset, right? Everything I’m doing is heart. So it’s head. Heart and hands is my ownership philosophy. And so I’m like heart and head. How do I keep hearts connected? How do I keep people wanting to keep thinking and imagining and being creative about where we’re going? And so the best way to do that is to understand what they personally value, what matters to them, even in their goal setting personally and professionally, and aligning with what we’re trying to accomplish. I mean, I’ve got people on my team all want to go the same direction I want to go. So then it’s just like how we’re facilitating that is, um, also, I find this and this is a little bit of a little bit of an offshoot is keeping people challenged, finding ways that keep people challenged in things that they want to overcome instead of just like, oh, there’s just so much it’s like, I have this hard thing to do, and I don’t love it, but I know I’m going to love the process and what happens to me and through me when I do it. And so for me, connecting their heart and head and finding what that is and then offering challenges that are actually hard, but they also actually value what the outcome will be through that process. Yeah. How about you?

Phil: [00:33:08] Michael, you know this because you work here. But like we so we we are in this um, we, we went through this whole transformation in our business about four years ago around what’s called EOS entrepreneurial Operating system. Do you love it? Oh, man. It’s fantastic. It has absolutely transformed the company. It’s transformed our lives like like we, you know, we’re just a very different way better place to work now. how do you get people to buy into the vision and buy in to the mission? I mean, it relates back to what we talked about earlier, but so first of all, we never stop talking about it. So I am constantly talking about our core values, talking about our core purpose of, uh, creating extraordinary workplaces as we have. There’s a, there’s a thing called the three uniques. But like, these are the three things about us that are that are unique to the world that we bring to the world, um, our superpowers, strengthening relationships like these are all things that we are talking about all the time. And, um, we repeat it at like, every time we meet. Uh, there’s, there’s a once a week meeting of the leadership team and of the rest of the team, um, where we talk about all these things, we shout out, people, how did you live the core values last week? Um, every quarter we do a reset of here’s where we were, here’s where we are now, here’s where we’re going, um, all relating to that.

Phil: [00:34:37] Like we never, ever stop talking about it. And, and I think that, like, it’s not it’s not just the repeating it, but it’s like you, it’s hard to not see how you are contributing to the whole and see how you’re not contributing to the, um, to that mission and vision. If you’re like, it’s in front of you all the time. And then, Michael, you mentioned something earlier that I think is, um, a lot of time is seen as negatively. Right. But like accountability. And when I think about discipline, I’m not thinking about, hey, here’s your final warning. I think about the discipline of like, what are we doing every week that we’re accountable to? And like, how did we do this week. So we have a we have a scorecard that’s part of our process that we go through every single week. And it’s like, did we do all of our activities and some of those things, some of those are things like, you know, how much money do we make? How many hours did we build? Like there’s some of that, but a lot of those measures in there are things like how many, how many people did we touch? Like how many, how many people did we outreach to? How many people? How many calls did we make? How many people that are like referral sources to us? Did we contact, um, all of the things that are totally within our control that we know if you do this consistently over time, like good things happen, um, they all tie in to our core purpose and and and that accountability and then that that discipline to follow on the things that we’ve committed to do. Um, that also just like all that is in front of us every single week. Um, and it’s and it’s really changed our conversations with each other. We are way more vulnerable with each other now. We have we have, you know, if you’re not meeting your accountability like we talk about that. Um, so there’s there’s a lot of great things that come out of that process. And, and I’ll say, you know, like, I love EOS and I’m a big champion of eOS, but it’s not it’s not eOS. It’s just are you are you doing those activities that keep the mission in front of people all the time, that make people accountable? Um, for like, you know, they have responsibility and they and they and they want to deliver on that accountability. Like, like, what are you doing to reinforce that like all the time?

Michael: [00:36:51] Yeah. Well, and you know this Phil, but I came from a, I joined LRI at the beginning of the year, and I came from a company with 250,000 employees. Right. And strong values, strong culture, profitable, made a lot. You know, it was it was a great company to work for. Literally. They’ve been on that list forever. Yeah. Um, LRI has a dozen employees counting me or more, give or take 1 or 2. Right. It’s a lot smaller. The values aren’t the same, but the belief and the values, the belief in the culture, the application of that it it feels the same to me no matter the size of the organization. So I think, you know, when you think of tips and tricks, you don’t have to be a giant fortune 100 company. You can do small individual businesses and still apply these tools and techniques, and it will work for you. So I think what you guys have said is super spot on. In the interest of time, I’m going to jump to the last bit and then I’ll give you a chance, Greg, to wrap up.

Michael: [00:37:47] So the last bit is because I’m a nerd. I asked ChatGPT to put together a profile on you guys and it was simple. I put in profiles in uh oh and said, look at these two guys and create a list of books that they may have read. So I want to see if you and I know I already know the answer to one randomly because we talked about it at lunch a week or so ago. But here, here’s the first book I want to see if you guys have read this book. So the first book it recommended for the two of you is the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. Follow them and people will follow you by John Maxwell,

Greg: [00:38:19] I mean, that’s a classic. That’s the classic. That may have been one of the first leaders, one of the first leadership books that I really embraced decades ago, literally. Yeah, yeah. I can’t took all Maxwell’s I took I mean, the 17 laws of teamwork today matters failing forward. I mean, the guy’s got like 80 books.

Greg: [00:38:39] So yeah, I was I, I looked at that one. I’m like, I’ve read John Maxwell books. I don’t know if I’ve read that one. Um, it.

Greg: [00:38:48] Was the original. It was the one that put him on the map.

Phil: [00:38:51] Was that the original one?

Greg: [00:38:52] That’s his seven habits. That’s like 21. I probably.

Phil: [00:38:56] I probably did read it, but I don’t like I it’s been a long time.

Greg: [00:38:59] Blends together with transparency. I have not read that one. So second one is start with why, which is a great book. How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Action by Simon Sinek.

Phil: [00:39:10] Yeah.

Greg: [00:39:11] I have not read Simon’s book. I’ve watched all of Simon’s stuff, so I feel like I got the crux.

Phil: [00:39:15] Yeah, that’s a there’s a lot of business books like that. Yeah, you could just watch the Ted talk and you are good.

Greg: [00:39:23] Ted talk, I got it, I got the notes.

Phil: [00:39:26] But like, I totally like we’ve already talked about how that like the why is the game. Right. And so like that and that that’s pretty much that book.

Michael: [00:39:35] Yeah. Yeah. This one was a surprise. But I, you know, I don’t know how much of this is just they’re their best sellers and how much is really customized to you guys. By ChatGPT lean in Women Work in the Will to Lead by Sheryl Sandberg. Have you read that?

Phil: [00:39:49] I have not read that. I’ve seen, you know, videos on it but I haven’t read it, which actually I should read it.

Michael: [00:40:01] Mhm. Yeah. Um, I started it and never finished it.

Phil: [00:40:06] Yeah.

Michael: [00:40:08] There is the next one, the fourth of the fifth five dare to lead brave work, tough conversation and whole Hearts by Brene Brown.

Greg: [00:40:18] Yeah, I’ve been through most of it. I think that was one of those that I’ve read and I have the book, and so I’ve referenced a couple times, but also it’s kind of like I think I’ve heard this, seen this, you know, it’s like I’m in it. I’m like, this all sounds very familiar. I’ve already been exposed to all of it. I’ve been exposed to Brene and just the philosophies that she.

Michael: [00:40:35] Have you met her?

Greg: [00:40:36] I have not met her. Yeah. Phil, read that one. Fabulous.

Phil: [00:40:40] I have not read Dare to Lead. I have been recommended a bunch of times. I kind of same story, Greg. I feel like I’ve heard. I’ve heard a lot of her.  there’s that this incredible video that they have,  if someone’s in the hole, you know, how do you like that? You know, there’s, um, I do, I need to I need to read that book, too.

Greg: [00:41:06] I’ll send you if the people you’re reading recommend to you.

Michael: [00:41:09] The last one is. Yeah, the last one is the classic, which is the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People Powerful Lessons in Personal Change by Stephen Covey. So read that one many years ago.

Greg: [00:41:20] Listen, I’ve invited Jesus, Joe Strummer, and Stephen Covey into my heart. And The Seven Habits was the cornerstone book of all of my leadership aspirations.

Phil: [00:41:33] It’s funny. So, Michael, you like, alluded to this, but I so I went, uh, we had an event in the entrepreneurs group that I’m in, and we went to Bama Pi, where Paula marshall, um, spoke to us about like the journey of that company. And it’s an amazing it’s an amazing story, incredible company that they’ve built there, um, that she, you know, and she’s had a huge, you know, part in, in where they are. Um, but I asked, you know, one of the questions I asked was, is like, what? Like how the culture here is amazing. Like what do you do to create this culture over all of these years? And, um, she’s like seven habits of highly Successful people. She teaches it to leaders like she’s a certified Covey trainer and actually the CEO of this, you know, got to be billion dollars like hundreds of million-dollar company, um, you know, is teaching their leaders the seven habits of highly successful people. And so I told Michael like I downloaded it. I’ve been listening, I finished it, I listened to it. Yeah. Um, so I just finished it again. But it’s like you say. I mean, it’s an incredibly powerful sort of framework for like, this is how you live an effective, you know, successful life. And it’s not just about work. It’s just, you know, how to be an effective human.

Greg: [00:42:59] Yeah, yeah. No. That book to me, every, every leadership book after that is somehow stealing from it. Yeah. Yeah.

Phil: [00:43:06] Well, Covey himself is like, Covey himself is like, these aren’t my ideas. Like I stole them, too. Like, he, like, totally. You know, he’s. But, you know,

Greg: [00:43:14] Drucker for him. Drucker before him was the source of his Drucker.

Michael: [00:43:18] I haven’t heard that name in a little while. Um, yeah. All right. Well, so if you’re an aspiring business leader, there are five good books to start with. And there’s a bunch.

Greg: [00:43:30] There’s a bunch of good books,

Michael: [00:43:32] There’s a bunch of good books. So and our leaders have read them or absorbed many of their lessons, let’s put it that way through Ted talks are good. Um, so our ChatGPT summaries. Greg, thanks for thanks for joining us. I wanted to end up with two last questions. Real quick. Short questions. Number one is we talked the Beatles, we talked the White Stripes. What’s your last and final music recommendation?

Greg: [00:43:57] Uh, the revivalists, always the revivalists I love I love the revivalists.

Michael: [00:44:03] So you got a hot band you’re listening to right now?

Phil: [00:44:07] Um, I’m trying to think, like, who’s, like, the hottest on my playlist. I am actually weirdly listening to a lot of Lofi beats, which is my favorite. my favorite playlist that I listen to in the background. I listened to it a lot, like at home in the background. Um, so those are just like an album that I’ve listened to, just like picked back up is, uh, Buena Vista Social Club. So, um, it, like, came up recently and I’m like, I have not heard that album in so long. And so, yeah, we’ve been playing that around the The Fire pit and, uh, that’s a great t album.

How about you?

Michael: [00:44:51] Wrap up with this? Hey Greg, thanks for joining us. It was great to catch up with you.

Greg: [00:44:56] What’s your what’s your give a quick music recommendation.

Michael: [00:44:58] Man I’ve been listening. So I went to this. Uh, look, I’m. I’m into the  Live music right now. So I went to this, uh, uh, jazz club here in Tulsa, downtown Tulsa, and saw this guy whose name is djembe something, and he plays djembe drums, and it’s something, something in the hands of time. I can’t tell you the name, but he killed it. It was amazing. It was just this great you know, long 90 minutes of jazz. Hot jazz. So with a djembe drum. That was cool. Um, what’s coming in 2024? Greg,  Like, what’s one big thing that’s coming our way next year?

Greg: [00:45:31] More of the ownership culture. Everything I’m doing is around ownership culture. And so I think you’ll just hear, see and experience more of that.

Phil: [00:45:42] Uh, well, next big thing, as you know, Michael, next big thing is the the next book, which is the hero assumption, which, will be dropping sometime in 2024.  it’s drafted, but we’re going through editing and all that good stuff. But yeah, the hero assumption is, uh, that’s that’s the big one. Yeah, I’m super pumped.

Michael: [00:46:03] Which was more problematic, your books or Marissa as far as, like, you know, delivering them to the world?

Phil: [00:46:12] I didn’t, I mean, I was there at the delivery of Marissa and like. Yeah, the lead up to that was, uh. It’s funny. Janet and I were just talking about that last night. That’s funny. But anyway, um, now the delivery of a book is, uh. I’ve never delivered a child. I would I would guess that delivering a child is a little bit harder. But delivering a book is not easy. but it’s it’s a labor of love, though, right?

Michael: [00:46:41] Right. That’s kind of what I was thinking of. Both of them are. Maybe a bad analogy,

Michael: [00:46:46] Cute. So anyway, I’ve said it twice. Greg, thanks for thanks for doing this.

Phil: [00:46:50] Yeah. Greg, thanks. Yeah.

Michael: [00:46:51] Yes. My pleasure. Thank you. And tell us once again Hawk’s Agency.com

Greg: [00:47:00] I mean, I love LinkedIn so they can connect me on. Just look up Greg Hawkes on LinkedIn or Hawk’s agency and that’s everything in my life. Awesome. Great. Thanks a lot.

Michael: [00:47:08] Yeah. Thanks, Greg. Thank you. Great to see you again.