Laugh, Learn, Play- Transforming Leadership with Erin Diehl

Michael Vandervort, Erin Diehl & Phil Wilson.

Michael Vandervort: [00:00:09]

Good afternoon. This is Michael Vandervort, and I’m here with my co-host Phil Wilson. This is the Left of Boom show. We help businesses thrive and become exceptional workplaces. We’re your go-to space for transforming businesses into extraordinary, thriving workplaces. We’re here to empower leaders and HR professionals with actionable insights, advice, and stories from top leadership, labor relations, and labor law experts. Today, we’re going to focus on a number of different topics and it will be all over the map, as is our guest. We’re going to talk about improv, chicken dancing, burnout, self-love, and selfless leadership. And hopefully, at the end of the show, we’ll get some good comedy recommendations as well. So with that kind of unique intro, I’d like to welcome Erin Diehl, our guest. Erin, welcome to the left of Boom Show. How are you doing today?

Erin Diehl: [00:01:02]

Thank you for having me. I’m stoked. I’m pumped to be here. Let’s go all over the place. Let’s do some comedy. Let’s make it happen for everybody.

Michael Vandervort: [00:01:13]

We’re going to. So Erin, who is also known as Erin Big Deal, is a business improv edutainer,  failfluencer, and professional Zoombie. I have no idea, I guess that’s Zoom calls all day long, right? And through a series of unrelated dares, Erin created a company called Improve It, which is a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn, play, and grow. And she claims that one of her greatest feats in her career is that she’s encouraged more than 30,000 professionals to do the chicken dance. So that’s I think the number is actually much higher now than 30,000, but I’ll let you clear that up. Anyway. Welcome to Left of Boom.

Erin Diehl: [00:01:53]

Thank you.

Phil Wilson: [00:01:54]

Erin, I don’t know if you know this about Tulsa, Oklahoma, but we literally have one of the largest Oktoberfests, which Michael just got to experience for the first time. He flew home one night and could not find an Uber back to his apartment, which is down on the river where they have the Oktoberfest, because Oktoberfest was going on. So there is a like a crap ton of chicken dancing that happens in Tulsa in October.

Erin Diehl: [00:02:17]

Okay.

Michael Vandervort: [00:02:19]

Go ahead.

Erin Diehl: [00:02:20]

Go ahead.

Michael Vandervort: [00:02:20]

I was just going to say I could see Oktoberfest across the river beckoning me with lights and music, but I couldn’t get over there because there were no rides. So anyway. Yeah.

Erin Diehl: [00:02:31]

Okay. Next October, the improvement team is coming down, we’re coming across. So, how did I not know that, first of all?

Phil Wilson: [00:02:43]

Yeah. It’s ridiculously large. So yeah, come on down. We will host the team.

Erin Diehl: [00:02:52]

Let’s do it. Improve It is there. I’m there. Start warming up the chicken dance.

Michael Vandervort: [00:02:58]

So to open up some questions, Erin, for you. One of the first ones is, tell us about someone who believed in you and your improv career early on and how did they inspire you to become who you are today. Because you’ve had a lot of growth in your career. And the new book, which we’re going to talk about in a minute, is all about that kind of stuff. So, who are some of your inspirations?

Erin Diehl: [00:03:25]

Yes, and thank you for that. I actually write about this person in the book because she is so influential to me. Her name is Jen D’Angelo. She was my boss before I left my recruiting firm to go start Improve It, and she just saw me for the person that I was. She didn’t try to change me. She loved that I was quirky. That actually inspired her to make me a business development associate, because she thought, this will actually help us get clients. This girl will do anything to get in front of people. And she was right. And it just turned into this amazing relationship where she believed in me so much that I wanted to show up for her every single day.

[00:04:17]

To be completely honest, I didn’t love the job that I did, but I stayed in it for five years because I loved Jen and she believed not only in who I was as a person, but who I was as an employee and then who I was outside of work. She came to so many of my shows in Chicago when I was performing. And then when I told her about this idea to start Improve It, one of our clients at our recruiting firm was United Airlines, and she said, “You should pilot, pun intended, your program with their TA team.” And we talked to our client who we were very close with. And my very first workshop because of Jen was with United Airlines.

[00:05:01]

And so, they were also the first company who paid Improve It for the very first time when we launched. And because of Jen, I have used her own example of leadership to lead my team. I feel that she showed me how to lead authentically, how to lead selflessly, how to lead with heart, and see the human being, not the human doing. And to this day, she is still my biggest cheerleader and I am still her biggest cheerleader because of the way she led me and believed in me so much.

Phil Wilson: [00:05:39]

Yeah. This is a big theme of my next book on the hero assumption. But this whole idea that we need those people who believe in us maybe even more than we believe in ourselves, right? Or they see the like 3 or 4 steps ahead of where we are. And making a big move like that, that’s a big deal and hard to do. And lots and lots and lots of people just talk themselves out of doing it, right? It’s too hard. I’m not sure it’ll work. And you kind of need that person who’s like, what are you doing? And a lot of times those are tough conversations. I love that whole fail-forward. What are you doing? You’re failing by not at least trying this.

Erin Diehl: [00:06:33]

Yeah. And I’m not going to lie, she actually instilled such a strong conviction and belief in who I was as a human being that I almost felt invincible. And I think that naivete is what got me through the first few years of entrepreneurship. Ignorance can’t be bliss sometimes. She helped me understand how to create relationships, and how to overcome setbacks. Because I was in a sales role with her, I heard no 20 times a day and I heard yes once a week. And that failing forward, that lesson in let’s celebrate the wins and really celebrate those wins and let the losses be part of the lesson stuck with me from day one after being under her leadership. And I’m so grateful for her leadership because it has inspired me and how I want to show up for my team.

Phil Wilson: [00:07:34]

Yeah. I know you’re a big fan of “yes, and,” when in sales, it’s like, “no, and,” right?

Erin Diehl: [00:07:41]

Yeah. So, I actually have a thing. We have a sales workshop, and the thesis statement is no plus maybe equals yes. And so, it’s you’ll hear no first, but if you can turn that into a maybe just by creating a relationship, the yes will follow at some point.

Phil Wilson: [00:08:01]

So you’re saying there’s a chance.

Erin Diehl: [00:08:03]

Yes! That’s it. I love that movie. Yes! Great callback. Great movie callback. It’s a privilege to know her. And I wrote an entire chapter about her in my book because of her leadership.

Phil Wilson: [00:08:21]

That’s cool.

Michael Vandervort: [00:08:23]

Very cool. Let’s pivot to you. So, tell us what’s important to know about Erin Diehl and your company Improve It. Touch on those two things. And then talk to us a little bit about how you made improv into a career. Because I think that is such a great way to take a passion and make a career, a profession out of it. Not many people get the opportunity to do that.

Erin Diehl: [00:08:49]

Yeah. So, what’s important to know? I’ll start with the first one. What’s important to know? Just a fun fact I like to throw out is that I have a dog. If you ever wonder how to pronounce my last name, it is Diehl. But my dog’s name is Big and he’s an eight-pound toy poodle. Middle initials are F.N. So, I just love puns. If I could have named my child a pun, I would have. I thought about naming my son “Done Deal”, or if it was a girl “Seal The Deal.” So, anything and everything that can be a pun is a pun.

[00:09:25]

And then how I built Improve It or what’s important to know about Improve It is that we are a company filled with 22 improv professionals, which is not something that’s normal. We have the most incredible human beings who facilitate our workshops. They say the qualities of a great improviser make up the quality of a great human. And they are the most outstanding, empathetic, kind human beings that deeply care about the world and the people in it who lead our trainings. And then I have an internal team. Actually, only two of us are improvisers on the internal side now. But we actually carry that empathy from the top down.

[00:10:13]

My internal team is such a strong group of all-women who believe in making the world a better place through laughter, levity, and positivity. So, we’re women-owned, women-run, but we have male facilitators and we love them very much. But that’s something to know. And then how did I get into or how did I make improv a career? I never in a million years thought this would be what I would do with my life growing up. I actually wanted to be a talk show host. I actually moved to Chicago to through osmosis, get Oprah’s vibes and somehow transform myself into Oprah. But in the early 2000s, there weren’t a lot of online classes on becoming a talk show host, so I started out with improv comedy and thought, if I …

Phil Wilson: [00:11:05]

Where did you perform?

Erin Diehl: [00:11:07]

So, I started training at Second City, and then I got cast in this Off-Broadway show called The Awesome 80s Prom, which was a kind of Tony and Tina-style interactive show.

Phil Wilson: [00:11:21]

I’ve heard of that show, actually.

Erin Diehl: [00:11:23]

Yeah. I was in the first cast in Chicago and it was so fun, but I was playing above my own pay grade. The people who were in that show were just fantastic actors and improvisers. So, I learned a lot. And then I went back to Second City and trained. I studied. I completed all of IO, the Improv Olympic, formally known as Improv Olympic, and I did training at The Annoyance and then really performed at a theater called Under the Gun, which unfortunately no longer exists, but just did so many different teams and shows and learned all about improv in these various schools. And I loved it so much.

[00:12:05]

Here’s the connection between how Improve It got started. I was working with Jen. I was working in the recruiting firm, and I was 9 to 5 in my day-to-day job. At 5:30, I would leave, I would go to either a show, a rehearsal, a class, and I’d be at an improv theater until 10:00 at night, and then I’d wake up and go to work again. This was when I was in my 30s. Can’t do it anymore. That was a long time ago. I did that for a long time. But I started to see the connection that everything I was doing on stage was spilling into my professional life. I was becoming more empathetic. I was a better listener. I was thinking quickly on my feet.

[00:12:48]

And that connection was the spark, the Marriott meant [sounds like 00:12:52]

of those two things. This could help people. I could teach people how to do this in corporate America, in just any job to be the highest version of themselves. And they can have fun while doing that. And so, that is the connection. We’ve had Improve It for ten years. And there is not a day that goes by that I truly don’t feel lucky to do this work. I can’t imagine any other thing I would do with my life.

Phil Wilson: [00:13:27]

That’s awesome!

Michael Vandervort: [00:13:31]

Yeah, that’s fantastic. But even with that, this leads us towards the book. I said we did another show earlier. We talked about Covid and sort of like we haven’t had a chance to reset. Despite your success, despite your enthusiasm, despite all of that, you still ran into a wall here a few years ago, right? In 2022, I think, to be precise. So, tell us about that. And I guess you call this your period of paired P’s, which is very alliterative. I’m not going to define those. I’ll leave that to you. So, tell us about how you ran up on the rocks and then we’ll talk about where you went from there.

Erin Diehl: [00:14:16]

Yeah. You’re right. It’s called the Three P’s. Thank you for reading that. And truly, I love alliteration as well as puns. And the Three P’s could not have alliterated themselves more because it was the hardest period of time for me as a leader, for me as a new mom, for me as a human. The pair of Three P’s are perpetual pivoting. I was pivoting, pivoting, pivoting this business. It was a completely in-person business prior to 2020. We had just finished an 85-page growth plan from the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Business program that we were executing against at the end of 2019. We were expanding markets in person. Nothing was online.

Phil Wilson: [00:15:07]

We were totally in the same boat. And yes, those were white-knuckle times.

Erin Diehl: [00:15:18]

I’m shocked how … And I know that all of us are sort of dealing with that aftermath. But I look back on that year and I’m like, how did we do it in such a quick period of time? So, developing everything into a virtual format constantly. I had just come back from maternity leave too. I was two months back from maternity leave when the pandemic hit. So, that was my second pair of P’s, was people pleasing at that time when everything was just turned upside down. I was giving to my new son, who was a newborn ish baby. I was giving to my clients, my team who needed answers and were fearful for their jobs. I was giving to every single person in my life, including my mom, who had just also had a stroke at the height of Covid and was in the hospital.

[00:16:07]

So, it was like this, like you said, white knuckle time, it caused me to go into the third period P, which was perpetual pain, and I could not get rid of this pain. It wasn’t like an ouch, I stub my toe, it hurts for a day pain. It was chronic pain that was undiagnosable by doctors, undiagnosable by chiropractors trying to give it their best crack. And it was just pain that I sat with for about two years that I realized was due to the unprocessed emotions that I went through not only during that time. I had just had a child, but two years prior to that, I was going through a huge battle with infertility.

[00:16:51]

So, I had literally not stopped. I just disassociated myself into work. I disassociated, at the end of the day, with a bad reality television show. And I disassociate it by just not acknowledging what I was going through, so my body just held all this pain in my back and in my shoulders, which caused me to completely crack and break. And it was truly in that healing, I had a homecoming to myself, my truest, highest self. And through that, this book was born.

Phil Wilson: [00:17:26]

Wow!

Michael Vandervort: [00:17:27]

So, Erin, thanks for sharing all that. I think of it as hitting the rocks, right? The Kubler-Ross, falling to the rocks below or whatever that is, grief model. How did you find your way back, if you will, or however you define it? I know the book, but what process helped you kind of start your way back?

Erin Diehl: [00:17:52]

Okay. So, this is not in the book, but it is a methodology that I use in one of my keynotes and it is very trademarked. It’s not trademarked. It should be. It’s called the MOVE-ON method. And it’s an acronym. Alliteration, acronyms, and puns. That’s kind of my wheelhouse. So MOVE-ON. The M is marinate. So, I allowed myself to really sit in that suck for a long period of time and really process the feelings and the emotions that I went through. And I always say marinating is not a steak. It does not happen overnight. It could take days, it could take weeks, it could take months.

[00:18:34]

So, once I allowed myself to feel, of course, there were a lot of emotions that came up. I moved on to the O, which is to own it. And then the most important part of taking ownership of that is forgiving yourself. So, I forgave myself for the parts of me that I felt led me to that point. And then the V is verifying the lessons that I learned. So, I put together a list of what did I learn from this? Yes, there’s a ton of failure in here, but what can I take away. And then the E is evaluate next steps. So, I put together an action plan for how I was going to move forward. The O of MOVE-ON is the “OOOOMMM” where you reprocess what you just processed. And then the N is the next failure.

[00:19:24]

Because I call myself a fail-fluid person. We’re always going to have another failure. There’s going to be a failure day after day after day. It’s a part of life. So, celebrating that failure and celebrating the healing of that failure is such a huge component of my life now. But truly, through that process, the marination, I would say I sat in for probably four months of a healing cocoon, if you will. I’m a very social person. I didn’t want to be social, I was sad, I was journaling and working with a therapist and meditating and trying to get myself back to myself. And that was the longest part of that method. That was the catalyst for the change for the rest of it.

[00:20:12]

But it took a lot of time. And to be honest, I’m going to give myself credit, it took a lot of courage. Because a lot of times we don’t want to go through those hard feelings to know why is the root of my disassociation happening. Why am I disassociating? Why am I afraid to not look this in the eye? And it got down to a lot of really real things that have been patterns in my life that I have now, halfway through my life, disrupted and changed. And it was a lot of aha moments for me that led me to the healing. And I will tell you, my back pain is now gone. It is not from a doctor, it is not from a surgery. It’s from that.

Michael Vandervort: [00:21:00]

Nice. It’s hard to do that work too. It’s so hard to do that work.

Phil Wilson: [00:21:05]

And doing it while raising a brand-new baby and trying to run a company. That would have been very challenging, I’m sure.

Erin Diehl: [00:21:18]

Yeah. And it was. Thank you for that too. And I will say, to me, the hardest part was realizing that I can’t do everything for everyone and that I shouldn’t. And that if I didn’t give to myself first, there was nothing to give to anyone else. So, I learned that lesson the hard way. And it really led me to a lot of healing and a lot of clarity and a deeper … I called the three P’s I’m in now, the three P’s remix because it changed those perpetual three P’s that I mentioned into a different set of P’s, which is I know my purpose, I now have my priorities in check, and I have a deep sense of peace that I never had before.

Michael Vandervort: [00:22:15]

Awesome! Congratulations on that. So, one of my things is pop culture references. When I was a blogger, I liked to throw them in there. And we do a lot of pop culture [unintelligible 00:22:26]. So, my next question is, it ties into Taylor Swift. So, I was thinking of you as being some sort of Taylor Swift ninja with this recovery where you’ve entered a new era, in some ways. So, that’s the pop culture reference. And funny that you shared that. It was like marinating and sitting in silence. It actually was sort of a ninja kind of move because it’s [crosstalk 00:22:53], what you did. I didn’t think about that until I heard you say that. So, it led you to write a book. The book is titled “I See You” and it comes out early next year. I forget the exact date. Maybe you can enlighten us on that. But tell us what’s your book about, what it deals with, and then a couple of other questions to follow.

Erin Diehl: [00:23:14]

Yeah. Well, thank you. And first of all the Taylor Swift reference is very noted. My son is a swiftie. He is four years old and he knows every single lyric. And I am not mad about it. So, yes. And the answer to your question is it comes out February 20th, 2024. You can get it on preorder. And I will tell you, this is also shocking. Through pre-orders, we have already hit Amazon best seller status, which is nuts.

Michael Vandervort: [00:23:47]

Congratulations!

Erin Diehl: [00:23:47]

Thank you. I’m shocked, yet also, I felt very called to write this book and I want to share that story with you because it leads to what it is about. So, through this dark period of time to when I was doing a ton of healing. I had a meditation practice. I’d had a mindfulness practice, but I really leaned into that to guide me through this. I was in meditation, and I received a communication from an ancestor who had passed that they were going to help me here on Earth, relive some of the lessons that they should have learned, and that together we were going to write this book. And I know that sounds very woo-woo, but it’s very true.

[00:24:37]

And I tell you this because I always knew there was a book inside of me, but I never knew what that book would be about. And this book is not about me and my healing journey. There is the preface as the entire part of the three-piece story in there. The book is centered around a curriculum called Energy U, which helps leaders. And when I say leaders, I mean anyone who is a leader of a family, a leader of a team, a leader of an organization, a community. It helps them understand first how to love themselves. It’s set into three parts. The first part is all about self-love. So, if you cannot love yourself, you have nothing else to give, which is a big part of that healing journey I went through.

[00:25:26]

So, at the end of every chapter, I use activities that are rooted in play, rooted in improv comedy to give you a solo activity and an activity you can do with your team to guide you to more self-love. And the chapters and the stories within that chapter reflect that self-love journey and helps people understand that that is so important. Because the next part is all about selfless leadership. You cannot be a selfless leader, you can’t give to others without giving to yourself first. So again, we’re talking about empathy. And the book’s subtitle is I See You, A Leader’s Guide to Energizing Your Team Through Radical Empathy.

[00:26:07]

And that middle part is teaching you how to be an empathetic leader. The story of Jen is in there. There’s a story of my own leadership in there, a case study. And then the third part of the book is, if you can give to yourself, you can then give to others. And when you have that type of energy going on, you’re going to attract a magnetic culture. You’re going to retain, you’re going to attract, and you are going to absorb that top talent with the same core values and beliefs in your organization because you’ve given to yourself so you can give to others. That attraction creates more attraction, and it’s a magnetic effect. So, it’s really about helping people see. That’s why it’s called “I See”. They see themselves first so they can see the highest good in others.

Phil Wilson: [00:26:57]

Yeah. So, my next book is The Hero Assumption. The whole core to it is this exact same idea, that I have to have this belief. And it really starts with the belief in yourself. In the book, I don’t really talk as much about that part, but I think that’s a really, really important distinction. You have to start with making the hero assumption about yourself, right? That’s self-love. Then that frees you to make the same assumption about everyone around you. The punch line of that whole thing is no one wakes up thinking they’re the villain of the story. So, when you’re in that place and someone is failing, which is going to happen, your immediate reaction isn’t like, “Oh, what a screw-up”, right?

[00:27:49]

Your immediate reaction is, “Oh, the hero is facing an obstacle. What can I do to help them overcome that?” And the same, your everyday leader. We talk about everyday leaders when we do approachability, but it’s also that same idea, right? Like Jen, there are probably times where you’re like I don’t want to go to that improv class, or I’ve got like other stuff to do or I don’t think I want to try to do this business, where she’s like, “No. I believe this is what you’re supposed to do.” Those are the most important people in our lives and they change our lives.

Erin Diehl: [00:28:28]

Yeah. She really did. I say she is a chapter in my book, literally and figuratively, because she is such an inspiration. And it’s not like she played favorites with me. Anyone who’s been led by Jen feels this way. I made a post about her on LinkedIn about a year ago, just even before the idea for the book was fully fleshed and the comments were filled with just positive energy towards Jen because so many people see her as this amazing, empathetic, compassionate leader. And it’s a beautiful model and a case study for leadership. It really is.

Michael Vandervort: [00:29:15]

This is all wonderful conversation, but in the interest of time, they sound almost self-explanatory, but they’re not simple concepts. Self-love, imposter syndrome. There’s all these words, right? We don’t really always believe in ourselves or love ourselves. So, start with that. But explain self-love and selfless leadership, how you define those, and what they mean in the book.

Erin Diehl: [00:29:37]

Yeah. Thank you. And I love that question. Because self-love can mean different things to different people. For me, it is setting up a consistent routine that you give to yourself day in and day out, and creating that routine so that you have given to yourself first before you give to anybody else. And it’s realizing that you have the power to change your thoughts internally because our thoughts change our words and our words then change our actions. So, those imposter syndrome thoughts, those limiting belief thoughts that creep up, were able to silence them and give them a new perspective.

[00:30:23]

And there’s an activity in the book I teach called New Choice, which is very tangible, which helps people at the end of that chapter really reframe themselves on a consistent basis. And it’s rooted from the improv stage. But there’s no stage and no scene partner, because the scene partner is your mind. And so, that self-love is an inside job. No one else can do that for you. So, it’s setting up routines and systems and practices in your life. Like right now, I could have this negative thought that I’m not saying the right thing and I can, in that moment, clap and tell myself new choice. I don’t even have to do it visibly loud. But underneath the screen here I could clap and tell myself new choice mentally.

[00:31:08]

In my head. I’m going to tell myself, I forgive you for thinking that. And then I’m going to say no, I know what I’m talking about, keep going, girl. And that reframe is the new choice, right? And so the thoughts that we feed ourselves just matter so much. They matter because they affect what we say and how we interact and everything we do. So, that’s what I reframe self-love as. And then the selfless leadership. So, selfless leadership to me, and what I mean when I say that is really being an empathetic leader is not just necessarily saying, I could walk a mile in their shoes. It’s putting on a pair of their Nike dunks, walking around, getting the blisters, taking the shoes off, and saying, here’s what I felt.

[00:31:55]

Really, it’s experiencing that person’s journey and listening in such a way that you don’t take on the other person’s emotion, but you realize the person that you are leading is a person. And most of the time, the things that they’re having trouble with at work are sometimes directly related to work. But most of the time it’s from childhood or from the day life that is affecting them. They’ve been triggered in some way. And so, getting to the root of that I think is what selfless leaders do. And again, Jen is the case study for me because she never made me question my feelings. She listened, empathized, and took action from that. And so that’s what I think for those two things, self-love.

Phil Wilson: [00:32:51]

Just two quick distinctions that came out. So, that whole self-love thing, the other thing that happens there is like the ripples. You’re the stone that gets dropped into the middle of the pond. The way you talk to yourself impacts the way you talk to everyone around you and the way you behave around everyone around you. And then that changes the world, especially when you’re the leader and people are looking up to you. That changes the culture. That changes the way people believe in themselves. All of those things happen when you make that change, that clap for yourself.

[00:33:31]

And the second distinction was this other we … We talk a lot about this idea of power distance. So, every power relationship that you’re in, in your whole life. And that’s family, that’s community, that’s at work. Some people have a wide power distance and some people have a narrow power distance. And the key to shrinking that gap is, is empathy and listening and really trying to understand what is the other person going through, and can you describe to them maybe even better than they can describe for themselves like, here’s what I am feeling, here’s what I’m observing and seeing in a way to where they feel understood.

[00:34:14]

You don’t have to even fix it. That’s not necessarily your role. But just, can I prove to you that I understand and explain to you this is what I’m feeling with you, I think, are two really important things that you said there. This book is going to kill it. It already is, I guess. No one’s even read it and it’s a bestseller

Erin Diehl: [00:34:40]

No one’s read it. Yeah. And I know you probably have a question, Michael. Can I add one thing?

Michael Vandervort: [00:34:47]

Yeah. Go ahead.

Erin Diehl: [00:34:48]

Okay. Because I love that. And I just saw this amazing post about this very thing. And I think leading empathetically also means leading not just with transparency but with vulnerability. So, being a transparent leader is really here’s what’s going on behind the scenes, here’s lifting the veil. But the vulnerable part is lifting the veil and then saying, here’s how I feel about it, and here’s why it’s affecting me, so you can start a whole different conversation. And I think I fall into that trap too as a leader. I definitely have had times where I will be transparent but not vulnerable. And the conversation will always, always be productive if you go to the vulnerable place first.

Michael Vandervort: [00:35:38]

Yeah. Last couple of things related to concepts from the book. And I love that you do these formulas. The self-love plus selfless leadership equals magnetic culture. Tell us about that.

Erin Diehl: [00:35:54]

Yeah. That’s funny you say that because that’s how all of our workshops are built. We always have x plus y equals z. And I just thought that was the way that the book should go, because that’s the way I’m used to creating content. And it’s just a formula that, in my mind, makes so much sense because you can’t give to somebody else without loving yourself first. There’s just nothing to give. I have a friend right now who is a mom. She’s works. She’s always doing the most for everyone, but she’s giving nothing to herself. And I know she has nothing left to give to me.

[00:36:38]

And I know that because I see how she interacts with her life and there’s no love for herself there, so there is nothing to give to me. So, this not only affects leaders, it affects people, humans doing their day-to-day lives. So, if you don’t have any love inside of you, you cannot give to other people in a way that is meaningful. And if you do have self-love, you can’t do that. You can’t be a selfless leader. And when you have selfless leaders, it’s just like the Jen scenario. People flock to Jen because she’s magnetic. She allows them almost to be a mirror. She holds up a mirror to who they are as human beings and says, this is how awesome you are. And they’re like, boom, I want to stick to you. And that’s exactly what I did. I stuck to her for five years until I said.

Phil Wilson: [00:37:30]

She had to run you off.

Erin Diehl: [00:37:33]

Yeah. And I started my own business. She realized she was losing me and she’s like, “Okay, can you just give me three more months? Give me three more months.” And I did it. And she created the monster I told her. But she also believed in me so much that I don’t know I would have. I don’t know this for sure, but I have a strong conviction that it was her belief and her holding up that mirror to me that made me see how awesome I could be at running a business. Yeah.

Michael Vandervort: [00:38:05]

That’s what’s really cool. Last couple of things. Radical Empathy sounds like Radical Candor, which is another tough concept It sounds tough, right? So how can leaders, especially those frontline leaders, bring these lessons that you learned the hard way? How can they bring them into their practice and put them to work besides buying your book and going to your workshop?

Erin Diehl: [00:38:31]

Yeah. Well, first of all, Radical Candor is an awesome book. I love Kim Scott. I’ve had her on my podcast twice. She is amazing. I was begging her to endorse the front cover of my book, but she is very busy, so she did not. However, the radical piece is in the subtitle of the book for a very specific reason because true leadership has to be just the utmost form of empathy in order to manage energy. Here’s the other thing. This book is deeply rooted in this curriculum I call Energy You. I truly believe we are not managing people. We are managing and leading energy.

[00:39:13]

And so, if you cannot help somebody by understanding where their energy is coming from, you’re never going to get to the root. It’s like a tree. You have to be firmly rooted in the ground in order to give to others. And so understanding where that human being is coming from at their root is the radical piece. It’s not just like, oh, I understand you’re having a bad day, you’re going through a breakup. It’s you know, I went through a breakup, too, and I understand how hard this is for you. Why don’t you take Monday off, reset yourself, and then I’ll check in on you on Tuesday?

[00:39:57]

And using that catalyst of deep connection to who that human is, not that they are a transaction in the day-to-day, that they’re a human being doing the work. That’s the radical piece. It’s getting so empathetically understanding to who that person is at their core, at their root to lead them with conviction and lead them being like you said Phil, the leader that you want to be led by.

Phil Wilson: [00:40:31]

Yeah. I misinterpreted that whole thing. I thought it was like Radical!

Erin Diehl: [00:40:38]

It could also be that.

Phil Wilson: [00:40:39]

I think it could be too.

Erin Diehl: [00:40:41]

It could be that too. But yeah, it’s more like let’s really emphasize the empathy here. Like what is a word that means the most empathetic? And there really isn’t one. So, if that was the adjective [crosstalk 00:40:55].

Phil Wilson: [00:40:56]

Super important.

Michael Vandervort: [00:40:58]

Yeah. The last couple of pieces of business. Wrap up with some fun because we’re not chicken dancing, however. We’re all seated behind desks, so we’re not going to do that. Who’s your favorite comedy performer these days or comedy performers, if there are multiple?

Erin Diehl: [00:41:16]

Yes. Okay. So, if I had to choose, there are two types. You can do a comedian, a standup, which Heather McMahon is my absolute favorite comedian right now. She started on Instagram and then she grew this amazing following. And now she has two Netflix specials and she is so funny. She’s from Atlanta. And she just lives her life boldly and authentically. And I just adore her. And she’s also a super empathetic human, very giving, very compassionate. And then on the comedy side, on the improv sketch side, have you ever seen this show The Righteous Gemstones on HBO?

Phil Wilson: [00:41:56]

I love that show.

Erin Diehl: [00:41:58]

Yes! Okay. So, Edi Patterson, the sister in the movie show, I can’t remember her name right now but Edi Patterson is the actress. And I was out in LA in 2017, and I went to The Groundlings, a great sketch comedy improv place. And she was a performer. This was before The Righteous Gemstones. And I literally got her name off of the wall and I said, I’m going to follow her on Instagram because she’s going to be famous. She is the funniest person I’ve ever seen. She lives here where I live in Charleston, South Carolina, because that’s where the show was filmed.

[00:42:39]

I just did my audible book in the recording studio that they do all their audio in, and I was like wow. She’s so funny. And she’s organically funny. She doesn’t really have to do anything to just be funny. Those are my two favorite females.

Phil Wilson: [00:42:59]

Oh my gosh! That show.

Michael Vandervort: [00:43:01]

That’s awesome.

Phil Wilson: [00:43:02]

Being from Oklahoma and like the buckle of the Bible Belt with Oral Roberts University, I watched that show and wasjust like, this is amazing.

Erin Diehl: [00:43:12]

So funny.

Michael Vandervort: [00:43:13]

So, who’s on your list, Phil?

Phil Wilson: [00:43:16]

Well, he was kind of like, I don’t know, not a big deal, and then he hosted Saturday Night Live recently. I won’t say he wasn’t a big deal, but I wouldn’t say he was a household name, but Nate the Barghouti. But anyway, I think he’s hilarious. His whole deal about his dad was a magician growing up is really funny. I think he’s probably my favorite right now. We’re watching all of our, and we talked about this on the team meeting yesterday, but all of the old Christmas movies. I just watched Trading Places, which I do count as a Christmas movie. And there was this trailer at the very beginning of it that was Dan Aykroyd.

[00:44:07]

So, this was before they had even done the movie they did this trailer that was just Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy in a bathroom in between one of the scenes. And they were getting it ready just to show some place where they show it to try to get theaters to buy movies back when they did that. Anyway, going back and watching those two, they’re so unbelievable.

Michael Vandervort: [00:44:34]

I’m partial to not-safe-for-work comedians like Eddie Izzard and Lewis Black. Those are classics that I go to all the time. So, to wrap up, Erin, and first of all, thanks so much for being our guest. It’s been a great conversation. It lasted a lot longer than we thought but it was a lot of great personal information. And Phil’s camera went out again. We’ll continue on. So, where can people find you and where can they find “I See You” as well, even though it’s already stellar?

Erin Diehl: [00:45:05]

Thank you. I have a new website, itserindiehl.com. And then my Instagram is itserindiehl. And you can find “I See You” anywhere. You can find it on Barnes and Noble and Amazon, any major retailer. And preorder it please so you can get it on February 20th.

Michael Vandervort: [00:45:28]

Yeah. You know, you missed on an Instagram. You could have been therealdiehl.

Erin Diehl: [00:45:33]

Do you know what’s funny? I was keepingitrealdiehl for a long time. And I had to change it because we wanted the handle to be uniform with the website.

Michael Vandervort: [00:45:45]

Of course. Branding drives everything. Thanks so much for being on.

Phil Wilson: [00:45:49]

Erin, thank you so much. It was great meeting you and hearing your story.

Erin Diehl: [00:45:55]

Thank you all so much. So fun chatting with you.