Phil Wilson: [00:00:10]
On today’s episode of The Left of Boom Show, I’m joined by Gail Wolfe, where we talk about project planning around your contract negotiations. This is a topic I haven’t really seen covered anywhere else, but it’s really important. Gael and I have worked on a number of complex bargaining situations, and I consider her a master of just planning the project around bargaining.

[00:00:34]
And whether you’re bargaining a first contract or bargaining a follow-on contract, there are a lot of really critical things that need to be part of that plan. And if you don’t plan that in an organized way, you’re very likely to miss things. So, in today’s episode, Gail talks about when you should start planning. Spoiler alert! You need to do that early. Who are the key stakeholders that need to be involved in that plan?

[00:01:00]
Some of the common stakeholders that often we forget about until it’s almost too late. And then a lot of practical tips just on how to keep track of all the things that you need to know to have a successful negotiation. I think you’ll really enjoy today’s episode with Gail Wolfe on planning for your bargaining. Gail, welcome. Thanks for joining us on the show.

Gail Wolfe: [00:01:23]
Great. Thanks, Phil, for having me. Glad to be here.

Phil Wilson: [00:01:27]
So, this is a really important topic that a lot of people don’t think about when they’ve been unionized. You might start thinking about my bargaining language and you might think a little bit about how do I communicate, or you might think about what do I train my supervisors. But there’s a giant project that has just landed in your lap if you’re going to enter into bargaining negotiations.

[00:01:54]
And so, our guest today is Gail Wolfe. Gail is one of our senior consultants and has done a lot of work in both unionized and non-union companies throughout her career, done a lot of bargaining, but is what I consider our specialist around big project planning around bargaining. And so, Gail, I really appreciate you joining us today for this important topic.

Gail Wolfe: [00:02:21]
Great. Thank you.

Phil Wilson: [00:02:23]
Why don’t we start with just maybe giving a little bit of background and then how you think about just project planning around a bargaining project?

Gael Wolfe: [00:02:36]
I think any time that you walk into a situation like this where there are going to be multiple stakeholders, multiple data points, multiple moving parts, where you’re going to have deadlines, deliverables, I think a basic PM, a role or approach, project management approach typically works really, really well. It’ll also allow you to think about some of the risk that you may encounter during the course of bargaining.

[00:03:04]
So, really getting detailed oriented about what are all the pieces we need to think about in advance of hitting the table? So, the more time that you have to do that obviously is beneficial. Sometimes you have a short runway. But I think really using tools like Excel to start to organize yourself, basic tools, and really making sure that you are thinking through what are the objectives, what are the deliverables, where does the organization ideally want to land in this first contract?

[00:03:35]
Most organizations that I work with have been thinking about their one, three-year, five-year plans. Those should be pulled out. Those should be communicated. Make sure that that is considered when you’re looking at where do you ultimately want to land in this contract. Because if you don’t, you’re going to allow I think the bargaining potentially to go in a direction that you do not want it to go if you don’t know whether those guardrails are.

[00:03:59]
So, really getting granular about where do we want to be at the end of this contract. So, those are some of the gist. This is a big open-ended question, so I’ll keep going and you can kind of go, ‘Hey, what about this?’ and loop me back as we go.

Phil Wilson: [00:04:17]
You make a really important point right there, which I think most people don’t pay attention to, which is your company going into this has like a strategy, right? This didn’t just happen you know, and you were and you’re like, ‘Oh my gosh, we don’t even know what our plans were for the company over the next few years.’ You have a strategic direction that you want to go. You probably weren’t planning to get unionized in the middle of that.

[00:04:43]
But a lot of times people lose sight of the strategic picture because they’re just like, ‘Oh, the union dropped a big set of proposals to us, and now we just need to react to these proposals,” without doing that big step that you just said. Which is like, what? Where are we headed? Where are we going? And how can we make sure that this contract doesn’t stop us from doing that?

Gail Wolfe: [00:05:08]
Absolutely. Looking at those objectives. So, what are the business objectives? So that’s where you need multiple stakeholders involved. It’s not just a guy sitting at the table with legal and navigating this contract. You really do need the operational side of the business to be involved because there might be things like acquisitions, mergers that the organization is looking at.

[00:05:29]
There may be, hey, we’re going to bring in AI and optimize some areas, and there may be some changes in roles so people’s positions may be changing. And if you want to move in that direction, you need to make sure that that contract is giving you enough leeway and options that you can execute and deliver on what those one, three, and five-year plans are going to be in the future.

[00:05:52]
I had one client we worked with where they were looking at the pension and they were considering in year three of their five-year plan of changing that over to another option for the employees. That’s a big benefit. That’s something that you need to consider when you’re going into bargaining. What are the things that you want to achieve as an organization, and how are you going to give yourself as much flexibility as you can possibly get?

[00:06:15]
Now, sometimes it’s tough in those contracts and negotiations. You’ve been there trying to get the end game of where you want to be. But those are really important guardrails that you’ve got to keep in line in sight and keeping people informed of what’s happening at the bargaining table. So, you’re bargaining and you got to take all that information and make sure your executive team is in alignment with where you’re heading, what your proposals say.

[00:06:38]
So many times, just crafting the proposals themselves can be very tedious. It can be very time-consuming because words matter in a contract. So, you got to have a lot of eyes on, a lot of hands, a lot of stakeholders potentially touching that language that you’re going to propose at the table.

Phil Wilson: [00:06:54]
You’ve already named a bunch of different stakeholders. Why don’t you do a run-through of, first of all, there are the obvious stakeholders, but who are some of the less obvious stakeholders that really need to be involved early so that you’re not running all the way down the path and suddenly there’s a roadblock that no one anticipated that’s going to mess things up.

Gael Wolfe: [00:07:19]
Yep. Absolutely. So, some of the obvious is your executive leadership team, your board, potentially, if you have a board involved in the organization. But then I think some of the less obvious might be those other elements of, compensation, obviously, it needs to be involved because they’re going to run all your competitors and they need to be basically available throughout bargaining and be able to drop things and run numbers for you.

[00:07:44]
Benefits, obviously. Your CFO, your chief financial officer, and all of his- whoever’s on his or her team is going to be running all those financial numbers for you so they need to be heavily involved. Also, I think just operations people are really important in this process because you don’t want to put a proposal out there that you think financially it works and maybe your higher-level executives are like, conceptually, I’m okay with that.

[00:08:12]
But the reality is the people who are closest to the operations and how it really works are those people who are doing it closer to the ground. So, really making sure the top side is involved and operations folks are looking at, yes, that proposal works, this is how we’re moving people around. Talent-wise, this is the skill set that we need. You really need those people involved so you don’t accidentally put in something in the contract that they’re like, whoa, that does not work for us.

Phil Wilson: [00:08:38]
And they’re also the most likely ones to like, realize, oh, if we have that language, here’s how the union would coach people to get around it, right? They’re going to know all the different ways that people try to get around stuff that they don’t want to do. And you can easily propose a clause that looks great on paper but just is absolutely not enforceable.

Gael Wolfe: [00:09:02]
Yes. I would totally agree with you. Things like transfers, disciplinary actions, sick leave. There’s all those areas that operationally give us their hangnails. They just hang us up because they are things that- employees are humans, they’re going to do things. And being able to have that foresight and go, this is how this could play out is really important. That’s why I think the ops side, and as many of those people that you can get who are going to be involved in that.

[00:09:30]
Then I also go, look at it from the fringe. You might have a contract with a bunch of employees, but those employees work with other departments, like in a healthcare situation. You have providers who might not be organized, and you might have a group of nurses who are organized. You want somebody on that provider side also looking at language that could potentially impact things like procedures and who’s available and what’s the pecking order for who’s going to be in that surgery.

[00:10:00]
So, there’s things that you definitely need to make sure that there are- you have to think through. And each organization is a hair different just because industries are different. But you really do have to look at the contract itself, but look at who works directly with those folks and any of the proposals that might impact people who are on that outside group. Plus, I think anything that is in that contract that other employees might look at as beneficial.

[00:10:24]
‘Why are those employees getting call in time and we’re not getting call in time? We view ourselves as being very similar in role.’ So, who are those folks? So, you need to talk to those people as well, those leadership folks to make sure that they’re like, ‘Okay, yes, we can handle that. We’re different. We explain the difference to our employees?’ Or is it too similar that it’s going to cause issues down the line?

Phil Wilson: [00:10:48]
Yeah, those are all great. We’ve talked, one of our episodes is going to be about communications, but you’ve got to be thinking about external stakeholders and vendors and things like that. We’re going to do another episode with you about planning for strikes, but who else could be impacted by a strike? So, there are all these different pieces to the puzzle that particularly for companies that have never gone through this before, many of these stakeholders you wouldn’t even think of.

[00:11:24]
Or you’ll think of them, but it’ll be late. You’ll go, ‘Oh, we should run this by somebody,’ and you’ve already proposed language that it now becomes a legal issue like, ‘Oh, we’re that clause that we passed across the table, we really can’t do so we need to take that back.’ Well, now you’re potentially bargaining in bad faith, which could have been easily avoided by just getting the key stakeholders involved in the drafting of the original language, right?

Gael Wolfe: [00:11:53]
Absolutely. So stakeholders, you really have to look at that contract and say, okay, who has any interest? So, sometimes we’ll look at it and go, what are those people who are even on the fringe, like we mentioned, could be? You might be walking into a merger or an acquisition situation. Government officials are another group that I think you really have to make sure that they are kept in the loop, not about every move that you’re making at the table, but you definitely need your PR team, your public relations team, keeping those government elected officials in the loop on what’s going, how you’re progressing at the table.

[00:12:33]
In some cases, we’ll actually even do informational deck materials to share with some of the government officials to say, ‘Hey, here’s the financial status of the organization. Here’s where we are generally. This is what we’re hoping to achieve operationally.’ So they’re at least informed, so then if they hear from the other side, they’re acting in bad faith, they’re doing things. You want to make sure those people are on your side.t

[00:12:58]
To your point earlier, you don’t want somebody caught on their heels like, ‘What’s going on?’ So, the more that you can have them educated as to what’s happening at the table, the better off you are. But operationally is probably where I see the proposal goes across the table. And then it’s like, ‘Oops, that doesn’t work for us. Now, how do we navigate around that?’ So, really thinking through who all needs to be involved in looking at this language before we put it down on the table as a proposal.

Phil Wilson: [00:13:25]
And like you were talking about, like strategic direction, I think going back to the ops people, there’s also just what are the things that currently is a giant headache that you would like to solve, right? So, you can go into the negotiations, it’s not just responding or saying no to things that the union wants, but it’s also like, these are things that are priorities for us and this operation and learning all of that and getting that figured out so that you can go in with proposals that are going to move the organization forward versus just the back and forth over whatever the union brings up.

Gail Wolfe: [00:14:03]
Yeah. To that point, Phil, I think there is an important point there for practitioners to remember. Data is really, really important. The more data that you can collect to support your position as to why you are making the proposals that you’re making, it’s more evidence-based, it’s more black and white, it’s less gray, so anything you can do to really collect the data to tell the story. So, to your point, what do you want out of bargaining, what are the key things that you need to get into that contract, and then what supports that position and getting that data ahead of time and making sure the people who collect that data and can analyze it and also pivot the data.

[00:14:43]
So, I always tell clients, you should be thinking about your financial overarching picture. How much do you want to spend on this contract, and where might that money be spent? If you have a proposal that you’re like, ‘Okay, we’re okay spending more money on, and it’s something that we use to recruit and retain talent.’ So for some, they’ll spend money there, but they don’t want to spend money, say on call-in pay. So, you need to learn where you’re going to spend your dollars up front and think through where might you shift the dollars down the road based upon the proposals that the union is putting across the table. So, really thinking through all of that in advance. What do you want to get out of is a very important point, and that takes time. And so, you really need to do that in advance.

Phil Wilson: [00:15:28]
Yeah. There was like a little glitch in the matrix there when you were doing that message. So, you talked about call-in pay- maybe just walk us through that real quickly again.

Gael Wolfe: [00:15:45]
Yeah. So sometimes the client wants to spend money on something like, say, a proposal on PTO, but they don’t want to spend money on something like call-in pay. So, if you find something that’s important and of high value to your organization and you’re okay spending money on something like PTO, but you’re going to shift the dollars around, make sure you know how that money can be shifted around, and think creatively because the union’s going to say, ‘Well, PTO is not important to us potentially, but the call-in is really important to us.’

[00:16:14]
And remember, the people at the table, they’re the ones really deciding typically what’s important in the contract. A lot of times it’s not the mass group that’s saying we all want more PTO. Sometimes there’s a select group of individuals at the table who have self-interest in what they want out of the contract, and that becomes more important to the membership versus what you think might be important to them. So, there is definitely some of that going on.

Phil Wilson: [00:16:42]
That’s a great point. And of course, that creates risk but also opportunity right? It’s like ‘Well, this is what’s important to the people that are in that room, and if we’re willing to give them that, then we can probably get a concession on something that might be wanted by the majority of the unit, but the majority of the unit is not in the in the room,’ so it creates opportunities.

[00:17:09]
You talked a little bit about the preparation phase and collecting the data and all that. And we’re going to we’re going to do an episode where we’re going to really dig deep into what all do you want to collect in advance. But for today’s discussion, I want to go back to you. I’ve seen your- I call it the M.O.A.S, the mother of all spreadsheets. When you project plan, it’s crazy, all of the different levels of detail and the things that you’re keeping track of as you go along.

[00:17:45]
Just as a practical matter, maybe walk the listeners through what are some of those different components that you keep in that spreadsheet so that you can keep it all in front of you at all times.

Gael Wolfe: [00:17:59]
Yeah. I think just putting things into tabs, into different areas, and figuring out upfront those areas that might be a little bit more complex, have more moving parts to them, making sure that they have their own separate tabs so you can keep that information, detailed information. And then, I’m a big color-code person. I love color coding because it gets my attention- and what does that color coding mean, so making sure that that’s visible on the spreadsheet somewhere so somebody can easily pick it up and read it.

[00:18:29]
But making sure that you understand, okay, these are the top three, five issues that we really are grappling with to get across the goal line for the employer. And then what’s the unions- so sometimes I’ll have one for the union, one for the employer so I can keep track of what’s going on. Plus what have we proposed and received counters on? So, really keeping detailed notes in your spreadsheet about what language has come back and forth and what seems to be the sticking point based upon the conversations at the table so you’re not inadvertently focusing on things that don’t really matter.

[00:19:06]
So, don’t boil the ocean. Really try to focus on, especially in a new- a first contract is tough because in that first contract, you’re establishing everything. And it is very important because it’s the groundwork and the foundation from which you will work from. So, there are certain areas that I really get probably a little bit more detailed in like grievances and the arbitration process, because those tend to be once you get them in the contract, it’s very difficult to get them altered later in the contract once you get settled into those processes.

[00:19:36]
So, anything that’s very process driven, making sure that you have those specific tabs, color coding. And here’s the thing, people will create a spreadsheet and then they don’t go back to it. It should be living on your desktop every day. You should be checking in multiple times and updating in real-time. Because if you wait to update, it gets out of control basically. So, as much as you can be on top of it, it’s going to help you project manage the process.

Phil Wilson: [00:20:07]
And a big part of the way you use that as a living document is things like, there was a proposal that got passed on wages and we need to get data about the market and we need to get data on what other labor agreements in the area and recent settlements look like. And so, you assign these tasks to people to go research and having an all-in-one place where you can go, ‘Okay, have we received? What has been assigned? Who’s been assigned to? When is it supposed to be here? Is it here yet?’

[00:20:46]
There’s so many of those different things. It’s like, if you don’t have that organized, it’s super easy to just end up at the next bargaining session and, oh, we don’t have what we need to be able to respond to this proposal. And there’s a thousand of those.

Gael Wolfe: [00:21:04]
Yes, absolutely. And setting deadlines is important. So, you need in your file, in your Excel file, make sure you’ve got deadlines established. Who is the person who’s supposed to track down that information and provide the answer? And I will tell you executives get busy, especially if you’re assigning things to- the higher up the person is in the organization, sometimes it’s harder to get them to respond to things.

[00:21:24]
But just politely nudging them, ‘Hey, reminder, this is.’ So, that is the PMs role. You are the gentle nudger. You have to make sure people are responding to information because it’s critical, because it can hold up negotiations. And you don’t want to appear to the union that you’re not being responsive because then you’re just going to end up with an unfair labor practice charge because we requested this information, you haven’t provided it. Et cetera. Et cetera.

Phil Wilson: [00:21:50]
I think that’s a really important point. The point of this isn’t just to be running down people to finish their to-do list. You are not bargaining in good faith if you’re being requested things and you’re showing up at the table unprepared and or you’re like, ‘Well, we can’t meet because we haven’t finished this thing that we were supposed to have.’ All of those types of moves end up negatively impacting your bargaining status.

[00:22:19]
And if they file a charge saying that you’re bargaining in bad faith, those are going to be all the examples they will throw at you to tell the boar they’re delaying, they’re not acting in good faith. So, that’s the reason why you want to have this process really organized and to show up at the table prepared every time.

Gail Wolfe: [00:22:40]
Yep. Cannot agree more. In fact, it played out in one of my situations with a client where we were acting in good faith. We had responded. We kept good notes of when we responded. They still filed a ULP and they defended it very well. When in reverse, the union had not responded to many of the employer’s requests, and so it was a great narrative to share with the employees to say, hey, this is not moving. Because the employees sometimes who are not at the table will understand what’s going on. And that communication, I would say, you’re project managing but the one thing I will tell you that there is a huge tab for when your project managing is communication to employees during the process of bargaining.

[00:23:26]
And so, we were able to effectively communicate because those employees who were not at the table were like, ‘Why is this taking so long?’ Well, here’s some of the reasons why. So, the more you can effectively communicate. And I think there should be a whole segment on that in your tab of when are you communicating, the channels you’re using to communicate out to employees, and the speed in which you are communicating. That’s the big hangup.

[00:23:49]
What I find, is that employers are not prepared to communicate out after a bargaining session, and so the union beats them to the punch and now the narrative becomes the narrative of the union as to what’s going on at the table versus your narrative. Speed is of essence. Figure out who’s going to be the point person, who’s going to be approving all communications. And pre-can, pre-write as much as you can before you get to the bargaining table. Then you can fill in the blanks after that day or throughout the day of bargaining and get that out.

[00:24:20]
You want to be viewed as the truth. This is the source of truth, it comes from the employer because they’re factually updating us on what happened at the table after every session in real-time.

Phil Wilson: [00:24:31]
Yeah. You also bring up a great point about how being organized is also a benefit when you’re communicating. So, you can easily be in a situation where you’re about to have a strike, and the union’s message is going to be the employer is dragging their feet, they’re not taking this seriously, they don’t want to get a contract- the only way we’re going to make this happen is to strike. And if that’s their narrative, you being able to show here’s all the things that we have done, all the things that we’ve asked for, and all the things that we’ve proposed.

[00:25:06]
And being really organized and being able to quickly communicate that, that can convince a lot of people, like, ‘Why are we going on strike? I’m not going to vote for that. I don’t want to not get paid for a month because the union’s not organized. They should go back to the table and keep trying to get an agreement.’ So, there’s a there’s a practical benefit. It’s not just it makes it easier to get your contract. You can avoid a strike, which at that point totally flips the leverage. So, I think there’s that benefit to being organized on top of just being organized, right?

Gail Wolfe: [00:25:44]
Absolutely. If I said, what’s the number one thing that employers potentially get wrong during bargaining and that is not effectively communicating during bargaining? And so, making sure that people are aware of what’s going on. What’s the channel too? Where are you putting this information? Make it really easy to access. Make sure that it is clear-cut information. They always say sixth-grade writing level is what we should aim for when we’re communicating in that general framework of sharing information.

[00:26:20]
Make sure it’s organized well, easy to follow in real time because that’s going to catch people’s attention. And they’re going to get your narrative versus what the union’s going to potentially throw out, which is not always going to be accurate. Let’s be real, we’ve seen what sometimes the union will put out there. We want to make sure that factual based information is getting out to the employees.

[00:26:43]
The other thing I will tell you, Phil, that I found to be very, very effective is when we’re doing this is also any types of flyers, visuals to help employees understand some of the detailed stuff like financials, benefits, and where’s the organization benchmarking and comparison to market data, etc.- so any visuals that you can do. And then, talk tracks. Give your leadership talk tracks, like here are some points that you can help with employees if you get asked a question. Because you want to make sure you’re empowering your leadership to continue having relationships. Because you don’t want your leaders to check out during bargaining, right?

[00:27:21]
The rules that they have to follow about what they can ask employees or talk to employees about regarding bargaining like, they can’t share. Sometimes we’ll pull leadership in on a proposal. ‘Hey, this is what we’re thinking about proposing, but we haven’t proposed it yet at the table.’ So, we have to make sure leadership isn’t disclosing that early and asking people about it. But at the same token, they need to be able to answer questions.

[00:27:42]
Employees are watching what’s going on at the table, and if they have questions, you want your leadership empowered to answer those questions. And then legal always should review that to make sure that yes, we believe that these are great talking points for the leadership to have in hand.

Phil Wilson: [00:27:56]
Great. I want to we’ll get back to legal in just a second. But before we get to that, someone who’s doing this for the first time what would you say are- you’ve already emphasized how important it is to communicate, so that’s obviously one important watch out for someone who’s doing it that they might not really have thought about. So, communication is critical. What are 2 or 3 other first-time bargaining watch-outs that you feel are important for someone who’s doing this?

Gael Wolfe: [00:28:30]
I think one thing is you get so hyper-focused on this group. Don’t forget about the rest of the employees in your ecosystem. They’re watching, they’re paying attention, so you really need to make sure you understand how is this playing out in the rest of your organization. And so, when there’s especially first contracts that tend to take longer, well over a year to get that first contract, there’s going to be a lot of noise and chatter that those employees are going to stir up, and how does that play out with the rest of the employees and the operation?

[00:29:06]
So, you want to make sure that you don’t create a situation where one, you could get another organizing effort with other employees. ‘Oh, it looks like they might be getting X, Y, and Z. We want to jump on the bandwagon.’ And then the other thing is this is causing discourse or tension in our operations and we’re not happy as employees. Really just making sure that friction, that you’re aware of it, how are you navigating around it, making sure that those employees understand what’s going on, especially when you get to a strike.

[00:29:37]
If you get to a strike, I call them the survivors, they’re the people on the fringe. Those people need to be really taken care of and communicated with effectively. So, I would say that’s definitely one that we tend to forget about. I would also say just the financial aspect of it, making sure you understand the whole picture of the finances. It’s not just what you put in that contract, it’s the downstream implications in the compounding effect. So, really keep your financial folks close to the vest during this process. They are your friends and allies.

[00:30:12]
They will help. Even if they’ll come back and say and shoot down a proposal that you think is great and you’re like, oh, we thought that would work. ‘Okay, well, you didn’t think.’ About a lot of times they will come through and say you didn’t think about the financial implications of this, this, and this that go get tied back to this. And that’s important. So, really keep your financial people close to you as you’re going through this process. And even have them as part of the team to help create the proposals, because sometimes they have ideas that we’re not thinking of on how we can frame things and help out the organization.

[00:30:42]
Because a lot of times in a lot of the contracts, you’ll see step increases, especially on the basic comp side. But there also may be some classifications that need some adjustments because they fell behind over the years or whatever and what the market is doing. So, having those finance people, I think, really critically involved is probably the one thing that people kind of gloss over initially and they shouldn’t. They should really have them at the table with them every single way.

Phil Wilson: [00:31:09]
Costing contract proposals is an art and you have to really- there’s the finance component, there’s the downstream effects of it, there’s the what happens in other units that maybe aren’t included in this but if we don’t do the same thing over here, then this group is going to unionize. There’s all these different implications that you really have to consider when costing. And that is definitely one where people trip up and all of a sudden their contract costs twice as much as what they thought it did. Which then makes your next negotiation awful.

[00:31:53]
There are contracts that are agreed to every year that are regressive to whatever was agreed to before. But taking things away is harder so you want to be super careful what you’re proposing and make sure you really fully understand what it costs. Any other big ones for someone who’s doing this for the first time? You mentioned talking to the employees. I have one, I’ll add it. And then if you have any others, feel free.

[00:32:25]
I think preparing for a strike way in advance. The more prepared you are to withstand a strike, and the more that they know you’re prepared to withstand a strike- that is their leverage. And if they know that they press the button and everybody leaves and it has no impact on the operation, they’re not going to do it. And even if they do it, you’re like, ‘Well, okay, strike, but we’re going to continue to operate.’ And those are things that you have to plan way in advance.

[00:33:09]
You may need to build up inventory at other locations or even at this location. You may need to identify replacement workers. You may need to train managers or other people that aren’t in the unit how to do some of these roles. There’s a whole host of different things, and all of them take time. And a lot of times employers just get caught. They get to the end and the union’s like, ‘Okay, we’re going to strike.’ And they go, ‘Oh, well, what are we going to do?’

Gael Wolfe: [00:33:39]
Could not agree more. One client in particular. New union, first contract. We started strike planning pretty much within six weeks of the union being certified because it was it’s a complex organization. It was healthcare. And if you’re going to use replacement workers and you’re going to potentially shut down operations, elective surgeries, or you’re going to shift over here or do this, bring in replacement nurses, it is a heavy, heavy lift.

[00:34:14]
And I think people underestimate all the moving parts that go into a strike. So, obviously join the other Left of Boom episode on strikes. But definitely, that is something I would agree 100% with, Phil. And if I even think I have a potential that I could have a union come in, does it hurt really to even have a strike plan together? If people walk out from your facility, then what would you do? What would your plan be? And so I think thinking through what are those risks are very important in doing it upfront.

[00:34:49]
Because when you have time, you have time to ask questions, to think about do you want to shut down elective surgery, do you not? What’s the cost implications? Have finance run the numbers. What if we shifted this department over here? What if we push all E.R. over to this department? Or, like, in an operation manufacturing, if we brought in more vendors to run this and outsource it. You want to think through all of that and how that impacts your operations in advance. So, the more time you have to run scenarios and the what-ifs, the better off you’re going to be.

[00:35:24]
Yeah. And then ideally, you don’t want to necessarily totally replace your whole operation or whatever. But weather events happen or there’s things that can occur that can actually give you an opportunity to practice the plan where you can be like, okay, this is how we think we would do this. And then, you have the plan ready and then the opportunity arises to implement it. And you can refine that plan. So, there’s value in doing this even if you don’t have any union sniffing around.

[00:36:00]
But obviously, at the point that you’re organized, you have to think about this. It should be day one considering, okay, how would we deal with this? Because you don’t have a no-strike clause during the bargaining process so they could strike really at any time. It usually happens towards the end, but that’s not always the case. So, you really need to have that prepared early.

Gael Wolfe: [00:36:24]
Yeah. And going back to your question on other things, strike planning, definitely. The other one I would say is training your leaders. So, once the union is certified, you need to make sure that the leaders are trained on how they are to navigate between the period in which you are certified and you’re in the course of bargaining and do not have a final contract. What happens if ‘Oh well, I wanted to change Sam’s schedule.’ Okay, what you used to do before is drastically changed in how you operate today.

[00:36:56]
So, I actually have done training with leaders as soon as a union is certified. All right, this is now how you need to as a leadership, navigate this. These are the things you can do. Here are the things you can’t do. Here are the things you should be saying. Here are the things we do not want you to say. So, really there is an education. And if you do that, then as the bargaining heats up and you need them to be supportive and you need to help them with the talking points, they’re more prepped, they’re more at ease, they feel empowered to have those conversations.

[00:37:29]
Whereas if you have not had that dialogue with them and that training, it’s all of a sudden they feel like they’re thrown into the middle of the fire and then you don’t get as much support from your leadership. Your leadership, really, your frontline managers need to be supported during this process because you want them supporting you through the process of bargaining.

Phil Wilson: [00:37:49]
Yeah. They’re your best source of information. They’re the most likely to break the rules if they don’t know what the operating environment is. A lot of them are just like, well, until we have a contract, I’m just going to keep doing what I’ve been doing. And it’s like, no, that’s not a thing. And we have a whole episode on what to train leaders on. But that’s a great call out. That’s something that it’s really easy to miss. It’s really valuable if you get them aligned and there’s a lot of benefit to it.
[00:38:19]
And oh, by the way, it keeps you out of the NLRB for breaking the rules. We’re getting towards the end of the time on this one, but you mentioned legal earlier. Why don’t you talk a little bit about where does project planning fit with the legal, with communications? Jus talk a little bit about how you’ve worked together with legal.

Gael Wolfe: [00:38:50]
Absolutely. So, I would say legal is obviously integral in this process. They’re really going to be the front line dealing with opposing counsel, with the union, helping to draft proposals, review from a legal position. But you as the project manager, are really helping to be the ligament between legal and your communications team and your executive team, the client. So, you’re the piece that is holding everything together to make sure that the deliverable gets there to where it needs to be and in the form that we all want it to be.

[00:39:27]
So, you do a lot of facilitation, tracking, keeping people on task, making sure that everybody’s on the same page, making suggestions so we’re not operating in a vacuum. So, making sure you’re keeping that 50,000-foot view and going, okay, who else should we be including in this? So you are that ligament between all those moving parts. And that’s what I love about what our role is as consultants, is that you’re doing that role of keeping everybody together to make sure that we’ve thought through everything, that we have the right parties at the table.

[00:40:01]
Legal is going to be the people typically sitting at the table. And if they’re not directly at the table, in some organizations you’ll have labor relations specialists or whoever’s leading that. But legal is still very, very heavily involved in making sure that the proposals are meeting the standards that we want them to, the right verbiage is in there. So, you need all the parties involved in navigating all the pieces. And then if a ULP is filed, obviously that has to be defended and processed by the legal team.

Phil Wilson: [00:40:31]
Yeah. I think that’s a great call-out. Also, lawyers are busy, lawyers aren’t always totally organized. Having as you said earlier, the gentle nudge or maybe even sometimes not-so-gentle nudge, but the hey, we need that proposal evaluated, we’re heading to the table tonight- being able to keep that organized. I think the other part that a lot of people don’t pay close enough attention to is making sure stuff stays privileged. So, having somebody who’s on the lookout.

[00:41:06]
You don’t want to have a lot of communications that are happening that are, you know, outside of privilege if you can avoid it. And having someone on the team who is aware of all that and, and can notice those things, you can make sure that legal is looped back in when they should be. Because a lot of times, you’ll have conversations that are happening, you know, in email exchanges and no one’s asking for legal advice when they should be. And sometimes people think, ‘Well, if I just copy the lawyer, that’s good enough,’ but that’s not how it works.

[00:41:39]
You really have to be thoughtful about when we’re asking for advice. And having somebody who understands that in all these other parts of communication, some of which probably would otherwise not get in front of legal, that’s another really important role for the consulting team.

Gael Wolfe: [00:42:02]
Agreed. And I think what I find is that sometimes negotiations get a little unwieldy in the sense that your bargaining team, depending on who’s on that bargaining team, you get some higher-level executive who’s on that bargaining team, they are running so fast, and they just want to get the information that they’ll start to run to their comp and benefits team as an example and start to pull information because they want to analyze it and not realizing, okay, that’s not under privilege.

[00:42:31]
You just went and grabbed that information, and now you’ve got this string of communications back and forth and your thoughts on what you’re going to do in the future. And so, it’s a great point that you really want to be thoughtful about how communications are occurring. And somebody like myself, who’s on the team who can say, hey, hold on, let’s set the ground rules upfront, make sure that we’re operating by them. You are the referee. You’re keeping everybody playing by the rules when you’re going through bargaining, because it’s easy. We all get busy and we forget what the rules are so you do need somebody refereeing that process.

Phil Wilson: [00:43:06]
Yeah. So, why don’t we why don’t we end with this question and then any other kind of final thoughts? So, the listeners of this, a lot of them will have just lost their first election so they’re going into bargaining their first contract. And they’re going to range from a 15-person coffee shop to a megacorp healthcare system or big manufacturing company that has a lot more internal resources. I think project planning sort of fits no matter who you are, but at what point does it make sense to have a consultant come in and do the project plan?

[00:43:59]
Or, in the alternative, I guess, when does it make sense maybe to coach somebody up on how to do this, but if they’re small enough, they’re not going to have anybody sit there all the way during bargaining? Where would you say is the line where it’s like, okay, once you’re here, it makes a lot more sense to have somebody actually in a full-time consultant role, helping move the bargaining through? Any thoughts about that?

Gael Wolfe: [00:44:27]
So, I will tell you, I’ve ran into some surprises recently with organizations. Looking at their DNA, I would have thought that they would have had certain positions on staff. And then when I started to look under the lid, I was like, oh, you’re running way thin. And so, I think you have to look at what’s the capacity because a full-time job on top of somebody’s full-time job.

[00:44:54]
So, that’s where it gets a little complex is that your people are trying to deliver their everyday job, and then they’re stuck in bargaining and doing all this because there’s a lot of back-end work. To get to the table, make proposals, there’s a lot of work. And then after you get proposals, there’s even more work because now you’re trying to respond to the union’s proposals. How does that impact our financial. And so, there’s a lot of moving parts.

[00:45:18]
I think you have to think about what are you trying to have your team deliver, comp benefits, your HR, your legal, all those people are trying to get their day jobs done. And now you just dropped a bomb of, oh, by the way, you now have to deliver on this as well. I think size-wise, I would say even your midsize companies, I think it’s smart to bring somebody in because it’s a finite period of time. It’s not like you’re bringing on full-time staff.

[00:45:45]
But this is, I think, having somebody who can help PM that and keep you all on track, because at the end of the day, if you have a really good contract that’s solid, you’ve paid for the consultant ten times over. Don’t look short-sighted on the financials, look long-term and what’s the contract that we ultimately want to end up with.

[00:46:06]
And for the smaller outfits, I think it’s beneficial at minimum bring somebody in on the front end to help you do the pre-bargaining prep. Like you know what. Are you going to look at what’s the strengths? Do a Swot analysis with them. What are the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats that you may encounter going into? Helping them prep and bringing in the right data points. So, bringing in somebody at least to minimally force you to think through everything that you should be thinking about before you walk into bargaining, at minimum, even with smaller organizations.

[00:46:40]
Because that could be a couple of meetings- just bringing us in to facilitate those. So, I think it really depends on what’s your bandwidth of your employees. Do you have somebody who can actually do that work on staff and still get their day job done without forcing them to work, you know, 90 hours a week for- Let’s get real, it’s well over a year, so it’s that period of time. So, I think it is of high value.

Phil Wilson: [00:47:05]
I would just emphasize that point of what’s the cost of a crappy contract to you as a business? And if you are trying to do it while you’re doing another job, you’re not going to be paying as much attention to it. If you’re new to it, there’s going to be all kinds of stuff you won’t even consider because why would you? It’s a really tricky area. It’s obviously somewhat self-promoting, but it’s there is a lot of value in having someone who’s an expert even if it’s not full-time project planning, but just getting that first contract solid.

[00:47:48]
Because that contract you mentioned the cost of that contract could be a problem. It’s not just the first three years. That contract is going to be the foundation of every future contract you ever bargain. So, getting that first one solid and right is going to benefit you really for as long as there’s a union in that place.

Phil Wilson: [00:48:14]
So, I think that that’s great advice, even if it is just mapping out the game plan upfront without project planning. And if you’re a smaller organization, you don’t need that. And then on the flip side of that, there are huge companies that have labor functions that probably are also going to be at the table bargaining their contract, but they don’t have this role of being able to project manage a complicated contract negotiation.

[00:48:45]
And so, one of the examples you’ve been bringing up is a great example of that, where they have communications experts on staff, they have a labor attorney on staff, they have outside counsel, but it’s still made a lot of sense to have somebody that was coordinating all those moving parts to get to a good result. This has been super helpful.

Gael Wolfe: [00:49:12]
Oh, thanks. And just one closing point is remember, we have seen multiple different scenarios outside of your organization and your industry that we can bring value to say, I’ve seen it done this way, let’s try that, see if that works. So, just one final point that might be beneficial.

Phil Wilson: [00:49:30]
Yeah. That’s right. Yeah. Great. Well Gail, thanks so much. This was super helpful. Always great to talk to you. And I really appreciate it. I think people are going to get a ton of value out of your project planning prowess.

Gael Wolfe: [00:49:47]
Well, let’s hope so. Awesome. Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it.